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The Setting:
Weekly 1-2 Game ($500 CAP). Mandatory uncapped Button Straddle…
As you can imagine, this game plays big for a $1-2 game.
The Hand:
V1 ($550)
V2 ($2800)
Hero ($2200)With a $5 Button Straddle on, V1 (solid LAG) opens in BB to $20.
Hero calls from the LJ with Ad7d.
V2 (solid TAG) calls in CO and Button completes.Four ways to a flop of 4d5c8d ($80).
V1 leads for $35. Hero calls with a gutter and nut-flush draw.
V2 raises to $125. Button folds.
V1 3bet shoves for $525 total.What should we do here? If we flat, we risk the 4-bet shove. Do we have too much equity to fold? Is this an easy fold?
We tank for a couple minutes and end up calling.
V2 pauses for a minute and then re-shoves and has me covered ($2150).
Is this an automatic fold?
That’s a pretty crazy spot for a 1-2 game, but this at least a 2-5 with the stack sizes and mandatory straddle.
To break it down, your decision comes on calling the 525 bet. I think once you call that, you have to call the shove. V2 has already raised the flop once, you have to take into consideration that he may shove over V1’s shove. I think that by calling the 525 you have to be ready to call the over-shove or you’re just lighting 500 on fire.
What complicates this is that you have the nut-flush draw. If you have the king-high draw it’s an easy fold. I think there’s a slim chance that the non-nut flush-draw is good.
But, given you have the nut flush and the gutter ball, you have a ton of live outs. Are you getting the right price? Hard to say, it’s close (I think you’re getting about 2:1 using quick math). Very close depending on what you give both villains.
V2, given the fact that he 4-bet shoved, has minimum a set here, or maybe the straight. He’s definitely very strong and shouldn’t be drawing.
V1 is a bit harder, he could have a straight (or a set), but he also has a lot of pair plus straight draw or straight+flush draw combos. Honestly being up against 2 sets is almost your best scenario because nearly all of your outs are live and they block each other’s full house outs.
That’s a huge pot though, hard to say if I call in that spot. Never played a 4-5k pot so I can’t say I wouldn’t nit it up and fold.
Very curious to see what you did, and what the other two villain’s hands were. Please update us.
I agree that calling the V1 shove, means I’m likely committed to calling the V2 shove… otherwise, why call the V1 shove. As you may have guessed, I ended up calling.
Given how loose V1 is, I put him on an overpair, JJ+ at least… after the flop action, he immediately knew it was the wrong play to shove. Even with his overpair, he was drawing dead.
Yes, I have may live outs with the gutter and the nut-flush draw. If V2 also has none of my outs, (i.e. a flopped set), I’d have 4 sixes for the straight and 8 diamonds for the flush, for 12 outs.
12/43 for roughly ~2.5:1.
After calling $525, and having ~$1600 behind, I need to call $1600 to win ~$2700, or roughly 1.7:1. Perhaps not the right odds to call…
As V1 said after the hand… can’t win a big pot if you don’t play a big pot!
V1 ended up mucking, V2 had the flopped straight (6c7c) with no diamonds. I ended up having 11 outs for 2.9:1.
I think you have a bit more equity than that. Pot by my math is 3290 (80 pre-flop, 525 from V1, 525 from you, and 2160 from V2), and you have roughly 1650 left, so you’re closer to 2:1 on the call. If you give V1 JJ, you are 36% to win and 7% to tie, so it looks like you’re getting the right price considering you see both cards.
Results oriented, I know, but did you get lucky and spike a diamond?
Hey Matt!
Sounds like a great game to be part of :). As the action goes I would take this as a fold at the stack depth we have. We are deep stacked and risking a lot. We don’t know if our Ace is any good if we do hit it and we are currently only playing for the flush. We have 13- (2 whole hards) – 2 (flop cards) for our 9 outs. This is best case scenario if our two opponents don’t have any diamonds currently in their hand (As they didn’t). For this reason of how many outs plus the stack depth I would lean towards a fold with the action in front of me as a lead out into two opponents plus a raise and a 3-bet.
If you do decide to call the 3 bet raise, I would agree that you have to now call off the rest of the stack as the price is becoming better for you with how much can be won.
Let me know!
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