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Hi guys. I hope everyone is have a great labor day weekend. Wish you guys all the best! Don’t forget to be nice to your card-room dealers this weekend! =)
I was in a hand that was pretty tricky on Friday. Villain in this hand is unknown to me, but he appeared to be somewhat of a regular from his conversations with the dealers. His table-talk made it seem like he knew what he was doing, but I’ll let you guys be the judge. I was at the table for about 20 minutes and villain did not showdown hands he was involved in, but he seemed to have a high VPIP.
Hero stack: 350
Hero position: UTG+1
Hero hand: A 9 ddVillain stack: 700
Villain position: SB
Villain hand: A 2 s cPreflop:
Hero opens to 15, MP calls, villain callsPot: 45
Flop: Ah 2d 5c
Villain checks, Hero bets 30, MP folds, villain callsPot: 105
Turn: 9h
Villain checks, Hero bet 65, villain raises to 200, hero tank-all-inRiver: Jx
Table was pretty passive at this point. No one really showing any signs of aggression. I made it a point to keep track of every pot size, on each street, in every hand played. I’m trying to plug a leak with my bet-sizing and it really stems from not knowing how much is in the pot. I did notice a lot of bet-sizing errors along the way. So since the aggression level of the game was pretty low, I opened with this hand.
MP was a older-lady. She usually plays limit. I’d had to define her range based her action on the flop. Villain calls and I wasn’t sure what to put him on when he flats.
I make almost a pot size bet on the flop. MP lady gets out of the way. The villain check-called. I thought he could be holding: Ax with possible straight draw, possibility flopped straight and slow-playing, sets of deuces or fives. I discounted QQ+
The turn gives me top-two. Villain checks and I’m thinking “I’ve seen this line-before”. I bet out again for value. Villain raises putting me nearly all-in and I’ve got a decision.
My nerves are screaming “he has a set! This is an easy fold!” I take maybe 3 seconds tell myself “Don’t be a coward!” I have top-two here and still have some outs. I count the number of set combo’s has: 7. I thought about Bart’s comment about aggression from the blinds and how it’s “almost always two-pair+” I tried to add all the combos of two-pairs he could have, but I concluded “it’s a lot,” of which, four two-pair combos I’m chopping.
I’m assumed during the hand, that my perceived range is a strong-ace, A10+.
I tied his range, Bart’s thoughts, my hand, my perceived range, and the fact that I’m likely not folding on this street. Instead of just calling, I shove for the remainder of my chips. Villain throws in the one chip call, and I was relieved to see he was holding bottom-two! Thanks Bart!
Could a fold be a low-variance option? Please let me know your thoughts! Thanks guys
I don’t think I could fold this to many players. He’s in the small blind, which means he should have a tighter range, but I see a lot of players that defend their blinds way too loose. You should play your blinds really tight because you are out of position, but a lot of players don’t.
He could have A2, A5, 95, or ever something like 23hh or 45hh for the pair plus draws. Sure he could have a few sets or even straights here, but against an unknown player (assuming he’s not 75 years old) I can never fold top two here. This wouldn’t quite be a snap call for me, more of a think 5 seconds and shrug call.
I agree John. However, my player pool appears to disagree. They will defend pretty light, with any ace, suit cards, pocket pairs. I just had a coaching session with Johnnie Vibe, and he agreed with SB defend with suited-broadway+.
He had a lot of 34 combos in his hand and it made worry a bit. But Bart’s suggestion of aggressions from the blind really helped me through this hand. I also agree, I’m not folding top-two here like a nit.
Right. If you think he can have 34, he can have a lot of 2-pair combos. A2, A5, and A9 for sure, 52 and 95 (especially suited) are also a possibility if you think he’s calling pre with 34. That’s why I can’t fold here.
Yea! You’ve been telling me that I put my opponents on a narrow range.
So A2, A5, 34, 52 can be grouped together, to make the wheel.
A9 would be a chop with me, but there is only 4 combos left.
Only one combo of 95 suited left, the 95ss.Looking at this, its a clear call. Thanks John!
I wouldn’t discount the sets, but only 7 combos of those (assuming he’s floating that flop bet w/ 99). But there’s enough 2 pair/draws to outweigh the straights/sets.
When I think of my perceived range: A10+ and overpairs, I don’t think villain would raise that much if he had a straight. He should be check-calling and possibly raising the river to get max value from me.
But then again, in spots where I do have overpairs or top-top, I’ve seen opponents c-raise this much on the turn, with sets and top-two. I’m not sure if they are playing for value anymore!
I think that is your perceived range as well, along with suited broadway with the backdoor flush. But I’m not sure most players think like that. Your average player isn’t here studying like we are. They are thinking about hands in absolute terms – he’s got 2 pair and your shouldn’t have 2 pair, and you most likely have AK (players always think you have AK). Most players are stacking off here with AK, so I think he’s targeting that.
Random question, and you don’t have to answer. Judging by your name on the CLP call-ins, are you of Asian descent? And are you relatively young (look under 30-35)? I only ask (and don’t answer if you don’t want) because people really stereotype the young Asian player, whether it’s true or not. These types of players are generally seen as LAGs (and sometimes even very loose players). It’s something that you need to take notice of. Players think the young Asian is a borderline maniac, will call their bluffs more, and will generally call them down lighter.
I generally play on weekday mornings/afternoons, and because of that I’m usually one of the youngest players at the table (even though I’m 33), and most players are 50’s and 60’s. No matter how tight I play, they still think I’m the crazy Tom Dwan style player. I’m white, but I still get stereotyped as the young crazy guy, and the Asian players get stereotyped even more.
@John, that’s racist….lol.
Yes I am asian. Vietnamese descent. I look Philipino because have a darker complexion compared to the usual southeast asian. I am also 36 years old. Are you hacking my info???
I would agree with the Asian-Stereotype. The casino I play at, the asians are for the most part, LAGs. They can really put pressure on you. Soon as they sense weakness, they will fire. At the beginning, I had to stay away and wait for the nuts against them, because I was playing too weak.
Most Japanese kids come from money, so they have room to gamble. The Chinese and Vietnamese you see at the casino generally do not care for money. The Koreans are usually better players. Philippinos are usually NITS. Luckily, they all think they are good players. Its also true, that they do not improve their game either. They are your usual go-play and go-home, rinse and repeat. One thing I notice of the Laggy-asians are that they make very expensive bluffs. I can recall two hands:
Laggy-asian is third limper, I iso-raise to 30 wit KK, Laggy-asian limp-shoves for 340, with 55. I snap-call.
Laggy-asian raises to 220 with Q-high flush draw on the flop. I reshove with a flopped wheel wheel and nut-flush draw.
With your help, this forum, CLP, and Johnnie, I understand their game and improving on mine. The regular Laggy-asians I play with, see me make value-bets and thin-value bets. I keep them guessing the strength of my hand. I have noticed they tone down their aggression and are more cautious against me. I originally thought that’s bad, as they are adjusting to my play, but we are all creatures of habit. It doesn’t take long for them to make the same mistakes.
I hope you are making a killing against those OMC types. Make your hand look like a bluff and they should pay you off if they think your a Tom Dawn type =). I have a lot of trouble with that weak-tight-passive type of player. You always think your ahead against them, when your actually crushed.
At my casino, the young white guys fill all the player types. It takes me at least 1-2 hours to figure out what they are doing at the table. To be honest, including myself now, there is only 6-7 of us who are decent or better and can do some hand reading. Two of us are asians and the rest are white.
I would occasionally catch someone not in the hand, just giving me the old “I’m trying to figure out your playing style” stare. I think it’s because my playing style doesn’t fit the stereotype and they are mad I won a pot from them. For that, I love stereotypes!
A short response to your thought would be… if you’re going to fold top 2
pair on this board you shouldn’t be playing poker. You fold top 2 on a turn with 0 possible flushes 1 odd straight… there’s no reason to play. You cannot assume a set.. a set of 5’s? Then you’ll have to go broke.. someone can have a set on every single board unless you have that set. You can never fold top 2 pair here… you can’t rewlly fold top 2 pair on any 4 card board that doesn’t feature a clear flush for this amount of chips… obviously this takes out of a lot of complex thinking but you have top 2 pair on the turn of a low stake poker game with recs.. this isn’t 5-10 at bellagio. This is a 100% easy snap call/jam. If you could have top 2 on this board every hand you’d be a millionaire. Overthinking can be a death sentence at 1-2/1-3 these are just bad players.Nah, not a stalker, just noticed it from the CLP call-in shows. The age I had no idea, just something to think about on how others perceive you, especially if you look young for your age.
As long as you are aware of the stereotypes that other people perceive about you, you can take advantage of them. I bring it up because you talked about your perceived range. I agree with you based on reading your hand histories, but others probably range you wider based on the stereotypes. I think an average player may just assume you’re a LAG and give you credit for a lot of flush draws or pair+draws that really aren’t in your range, so they may be raising you lighter than they would an OMC.
I noticed that when I’m playing 2/3 and literally every other players is 20-30 years (or more) older than me, I definitely need to change my pre-flop range and raising size because they think I’m the crazy young kid. There are times when I will open 30-40% of my hands because I know I can run over a table, but when it’s all old guys I tighten up a bit because they tend to call my huge raises and I go multiway a lot. So I raise by, don’t C-bet too light, and get value when I can since this player type doesn’t pay off big river bets without super strong hands.
At 3/5, I don’t have this issue. There are several younger players that frequent these games – mostly white pros and a few Asian pros – that drive a lot of the action. I still get more calls than the old guys, but not quite as much as I get at 2/3.
I’d be curious to see what other players notice about the players around them. Simple stuff like backpack = aggressive pro. Female players generally have a tighter range. I don’t strictly rely on stereotypes for my player reads, but it’s part of the information I use to construct a read on a given player. Just think about how often of the OMC stereotype is true!
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