1/3 : decision with KK on turn

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  • #4709
    Chuck M
    Participant

    Playing 1/3,
    300 eff.
    Few limps, splashy player on the btn raises to 16-18 (I’ve seen him do it with 72o).
    His friend, another splashy, action lover, 3bets in sb to 40.
    I wake up on the BB with KK.
    Now that I’m writing it down, I’d like a 4bet here around 110-120.
    But at the moment, I thought a cold 4bet would turn my hand a little bit face up. And I’m pretty sure we’d get hu postflop even when I flat, i got position, and I keep his range wide.
    Also, if open raiser otb happen to 4bet squeeze, I think stacks were gonna get in.
    Even tho SB’s an action player, 3bets are not that frequent yet, it that game.

    So i flat, hu to a flop
    Flop (~100)
    753ss

    He asks me if I have aces
    Checks, I bet 50, he says “ok reasonable bet” and calls

    Keeps asking if i got aces…

    Turn (200)
    J
    He shoves (covers me, I got 200 left)..

    Then still asks me if I got aces… Or maybe kings?
    I end up telling yeah, i got kings…

    I thought he could have had AA but I didn’t really “feel” it. Slim chances.
    But maybe a turned set? On the other hand, wouldn’t he be checking his top set and let me bet (going for a x/r?) I dunno…

    I didn’t have the Ks, so maybe that gives him more fd combos
    I think he might perceive me as a weak-ish nit, so he might try to get me to fold KKs with a draw, idk

    What d’you guys think about this spot?
    Thanks

    #4710
    Todd
    Participant

    so, button folded preflop?

    #4711
    Chuck M
    Participant

    Yup

    (as I think about it, he had great odds to call)

    #4712
    Todd
    Participant

    call, he’s got QQ at best.
    🙂
    if he hit a set, so be it. He’s trying to talk you out of a call, I think.

    #4713
    Chuck M
    Participant

    Yeah I called,
    He showed JJ, nh

    Just a cooler I guess, pretty sure I got at least the 33% i need to make the call if he’s got QQ, tptk, flush draws.
    And since I don’t have the Ks, he may have AKss, KQss, KJss, maybe even QJss and JTss, he may shove 14 outs there

    #4715
    DeeKay
    Participant

    Funny, when I read he shoved, given his 3-bet… Jacks was the likely answer. Interesting situation. The only person I’ve ever seen make that move – telling the other person what he has, clearly the better hand for a pure bluff move – is Daniel Negraneu.

    Here’s the thing though. The usually when a player asks if the other player has the nuts, it typically means they have 2nd or 3rd nuts. And he seems cautious until the Jack hits. I’m not sure how you can let this go, but in that situation, I have to read Jacks or Aces. What else would he shove with? Unless he’s Negraneu.

    As far as the 4-bet situation. I like the 4-bet for two reasons. (1) They’re splashy players, so the likelihood of them coming along is greater, so we want to play a bigger pot (2) we charge big hands like A-K suited, A-Q suited, and smaller pairs. I wouldn’t worry about 4-betting giving your hand away as most, especially splashy players don’t read it that way at 1-2, or 1-3. But I am also ok with you playing the hand under repped, especially with players who are going to likely fire more at the pot. HOWEVER, the big kicker is that by you calling a 3-bet, this basically gave away your hand at the table anyway. Therefore, I would have like to see you 4-bet. Regardless… you got cold decked which is unfortunate.

    So, my conclusion is you could have gotten away from the hand of you were able to think clearly and pick up that basically you were only beating Queens or Tens and his shove didn’t make sense if he thought you were better (given his caution on the flop). But I would say that if you were able to find the fold there, you wouldn’t need this website : ) That would be some high level play.

    #4751
    Phx Chris P
    Participant

    the key here is that he started with the talk BEFORE he hit his set. The talk started when he was actually afraid of AA KK…basic reading player tells would say any ‘strength’ he is trying to give off by his chatting/question asking shows he his weak/scared. It obviously gets more complicated after that…but also on a basic level: he check called (while chatting) when he was weak/scared and open shipped (while chatting) when he had the nuts…my experience at 1/3 is that chk/call then lead is not usually a bluff. Although I don’t disagree with you that he ‘should’ check that turn when he has JJ…again, when do 1/3 players do what you would do? that’s why you beat that little game up until you can move up and make better money!! 🙂

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