- This topic has 3 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hi guys. Just wanted to share an interesting spot I was in, at a terrible game. To prefix this hand, I was at a table with 5 OMC types. They were limp-calling their entire range. I had managed to punt-off about $200 at this table, before this hand started. But none of that affected my decision in this hand. I guess I need to work on my game selection, because clearly this was not a profitable game to be in. On to the hand in question. I do not know anything about the villain in the hand. So I could only rely on my reads of the action during the hand.
Hero Stack: 220
Hero Hand: 77sc
Hero Position: HJVillain Stack: 400
Villain Hand: 88cd
Villain Position: UTG2Preflop:
UTG opens 10, Villain calls, EP calls, Hero calls, Btn calls, SB and BB calls. 7 ways to the flop.Flop: 3c 3d 5s
Checks to Villain, Villain bets 25, EP folds, Hero calls, everyone else folds. Heads up to the turn.Turn: 10c
Villain checks, Hero bets 45, Villain callsRiver: 10d
Villain checks, Hero bets all-in, Villain snap-callsThe UTG in this hand was a rock! So his raise made me think he had a strong holding here. My preflop strategy was to set-mine, and fold if he bets the flop and I missed. However, when he checked the flop, I knew that he whiffed the board. This UTG players was playing pretty face-up.
When villain bet the flop, I thought it was interesting, so I called the flop to see what would happen. However, I think this is where my first mistake was made. I started to deviate from my preflop plan.
I didn’t think he had a full house here or even a 3 in his hand. I don’t think a monster hand like a boat would bet into 6 people. On the flop I thought he may have 5X or an over-pair below 10s.
The 10 on the turn was very interesting. It’s an over-card to the board and I have noticed that over-cards on the turn, tend to slow people down when they have a marginal hand. So when villain checked the turn, I know he’s not holding a 3. I tried to narrow his hand down to 5X, 66, 88. Maybe 99, but I thought maybe 99 would raise preflop. I know he’s not holding 77, as I am holding them.
The river was interesting too. This double pairs the board. I learned from Johnnie Vibes, that people usually do not bluff when the river card pairs the board. So when villain checked to me, I tanked for about a minute and three things went through my head at the time:
1) He’s not bluffing
2) The river does not change anything, if I was ahead on the turn, then I’m still ahead here
3) I have to bet for value here if he’s holding 5x or 66My heart sank when he showed up with 88. I packed up my gear after that hand, and left the table feeling pretty sick to my stomach, telling myself, “I should’ve checked!”
I kept thinking about this hand on the drive home. Given the action, I thought that my hand, on average, does well against this villains range. There are 12 combinations of hands that can beat me, and at least 15 combinations of 5X and 66 that I can beat. when I tried to play the hand out from his point of view, he has me crushed. I’m not sure if this is the way to go about range-reading. I don’t even know if it was correct to apply it, with no info on the villain. I should’ve just checked on the river to save my remaining chips, or kept my preflop plan to save my stack. This session puts June as a losing month for me and I’m back at even. *sigh* I suck at this.
Han, at the casino I play at most I deal with a lot of OMC types as well, mostly chasing a $100 aces cracked promo. Especially when they are limp-calling literally their entire range it gets tricky to play against them since they aren’t ever really going to out play you, you will out play yourself.
TLDR, I think the value is a bit too thin here.
For what you mentioned from Johnnie, remember how that works. If people don’t bluff often enough, and people know that they then begin to bluff too often and people know that so bluffing becomes less effective.
So for your points, he’s not bluffing yes but it’s hard to bluff with a check. You mentioned that his value hands that you beat include 5X but is he always calling with all his fives? For that matter is he always calling his 66? It’s not what you beat, it’s what you beat that he will call with. Honestly, he might play JJ or 99 this way, he might play ATs this way. There is some small chance he has quads or A3s. Just because he has a “value hand” doesn’t mean he will always call with it. An Ace has some showdown value but he isn’t going to call with Ace high.
Also a note, usually when someone tanks for a while when checked too it means the hand is marginal or they are trying to find the courage to bluff. I would recommend taking your showdown value here especially against an unknown opponent.
Hi David. “It’s not what you beat, it’s what you beat that he will call with.” I like this concept. I’ll have to give this a lot of thought. Thanks so much for the insight.
You’re probably right. On that board, villain can’t be that stubborn to call down with a 5X hand. That really changes everything and was a clear check on the river. *sigh. I really hope I will get better at this.
I usually take a little longer when I’m trying to make a river decision. I guess that’s why my opponents typically call me even when I have the nuts. I should bet a little larger to exploit that. Thanks for the note!
Came here to say what David already said. Not much can call you that you beat. At some levels you might get called down by Ace high, but not many 1/3 players are trying to do that.
Since you can’t really get called for value, the only reason to bet is for a bluff. You can target a few hands (like 88, 99, maybe JJ depending on how tight the player is), but this is a narrow range.
For those reasons, I like the check back. I’m surprised he snap-called. He must have put you on A high.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.