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I might have overplayed that, or maybe it’s pretty standard. I guess I chose the high variance road with this one.
Anything we could’ve done differently? B/c, c/f? C/c flop?
Thanks for letting me know your thoughts 😉
I would start with the pre flop I think you need to go higher to see where you’re at. I play exclusively 1-2 myself and understand that some people call anything etc but I would say 15-20 pre flop is the better play here but I don’t hate the 10. On the flop is where I have the biggest issue you cannot bet 10 here. That is too low. And then he min raises you to 20? You have to know he is strong but had you bet out 30-35 and seen him call or re raise you have known he was strong for sure. The turn is a brick and he fires 50… leaving himself with very little money behind.. you have to lay this hand down. Yes you have a ton of outs.. open ended and flush draw but you know you’re 100% behind playing for 1 card.. and you know the rest is going in on the river regardless. You can lose a lot of money chasing draws. The flop bet I think is the key here and you have to let go after the turn. You end up losing basically 100 you didn’t need to. Just my 2 cents.
Hey Zach, thanks for your answer.
I agree, I think I should’ve bet bigger on the flop, like 3/4 pot (15-18).When villain raises me on the flop, I know she’s ahead (villain’s a she). But I also know that I’m good if I hit (had she had a bigger flush draw, she would’ve c/c). I put her on tptk, top2, or a set… maybe an over pair, JJ or QQ, but I have blockers, and she might 3bet those hands pf, she surely 3bets KK and AA.
Turn is a K, with my double draw, I kind of wanted to get it in. I wasn’t sure if the best option was to shove in the first place (1.5x pot) or c/r, or just c/c, or even I’m kinda wondering if I can c/f with my 17 outs (let’s say 16 since she probably has a set, so Ks wouldn’t be good since it pairs the board).
I guess the effectice stack size to pot ratio is kind of weird here, maybe betting larger on the flop would have made things different 🙂
Hi Chuck, me 2 I’m from Montreal.I’m a 2-5 player. Sometime I play 1-2 waiting for 2-5 table at the casino MTL. After viewing your hand, the way u played it was terrible, u did too many mistakes, bet seizing, the reraise on the turn… was awful, and some small details that can safe u alot money. Ex: earlier u say villain was a women right, there some exception but generally women only put money in with the good, the turn minraise…btw Chuck no offense to you but your game need more improvement.I’m glad that we share the same passion, I use to learn poker in the Internet too, here one of my favorite website that help improve my game alot (pokerlisting.com). Good luck Chuck
Hi Luong, thanks for your answer.
The table standard opening size was around 7-12, so I thought my iso raise to 10 was ok, but it’s true that I could’ve made it 12-14ish.
Flop cbet, i also agree that I should’ve made it 3/4 pot. When she min-raises, I know she’s ahead, i’m pretty sure she doesn’t even raise with nfd (she’d flat, im pretty sure). So I know Im behind, but I feel that my draw is live, so I call.
Turn improved my hand, i guess I could’ve pushed in the first place, or c/c, or c/f (but I though folding 30% equity here was a bit to tight?). But again, had I bet a tiny bit bigger pf and on flop, the decision would’ve been easier on that turn. (And had she shoved after my flop bet, i would’ve obviously folded).
Thanks for the hints, I agree that my game needs improvement, that’s part of why I play, and wanna put in some (little) volume 🙂
And that’s also part of why I signed up on that site and I like to share hands and have discussions on 🙂Hi Chuck there some points in your reply that I want to share my thought with u.
1- she could raise u with NFD why?
A: Bc if the turn miss, she could fire again (agressive player)
B: Check turn free river (with this line she could decide the prize of the turn)2- the turn did not improve your hand, u still have Q high but u did add some outs. Ok let say we don’t know what villain had. On the flop u got 36% maybe 12% more from your 2 over cards…around 48% that almost a coin clip, (me personally I will never fold this hand on the flop unlease I pick up some tell). Once again let say we have only the FD on that flop it 36% win rate. Now at the turn our win rate has drop to 30% compare to 36%. We know we was behind right, we never going to C/R here. We never going to shove either, why adding more money in the middle when the odd isn’t in our favor. C/C or C/F here is standard (pot 65 + 50 from villain turn bet + 35 from implies odd villain will pay off if we hit) so total is 150$, we only call 50 to win 150, pot odd is 1/3 and our chance to made our hand is 30% it almost 1/3 so we are pretty even here.
3- like I say before I’m not going to fold to a raise on the flop. Villain will never over bet shove our flop bet with the nut or a strong holding.
Go Habs go !!!
Yeah I agree with all of that.
I didn’t think she would raise with a naked flush draw, that was my read with that particular player. But I know the reasons you said for raising with nfd are good and some players would do so. Sometimes I do so.
That villain was mostly passive (with draws anyhow).And yeah, I said the turn improved my hand, that wasn’t true. I meant I got more outs, almost double them. That being said, with only one card to come, I don’t improve equity, that’s true.
I think I would win more over the long run with a c/c here than stacking off
I thought you played it fine. Stack sizes make it awkward to get it in good OTT but even if she showed you her hand you’re still getting the right price to call 31 more.
Chuck,
A lot of voices already in this hand, so I’ll keep this short. You said that you improved on the turn, but you didn’t. Yes, you picked up the open ended straight draw, but now your flush draw only has one card to hit. The chances that your hand will improve to beat even a one-pair hand are about the same on the turn as they were on the flop. I think you have odds to call her flop raise and a quarter-pot sized bet on the turn. The check-raise of her turn bet was more than optimistic. She had already shown strength raising you and betting on the turn. There was no way she didn’t have odds to call a min check-raise, even without a made hand.
All said, you got the consensus that the play was not the best, and now probably see it more like the rest of us do. I know the feeling of wanting to win every hand and second-guessing later (If only I had…). The quicker you learn to recognize which hands you’re very likely to lose, the less you’ll lose on them. Have heart, this hand is not as bad as some of the mistakes I (still) make.
I guess this wasn’t so short after all.
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