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I played a session a couple of nights ago and I want to know your guys’ opinion on my line. The intent of the hand was to get maximum value from a monster.
3-300 Spread limit, 3 max bets ~$290 effective stack.
Hero: JdJh in the HJ image is maybe a bit tight and will make large raises over a number of limps but those hands rarely go to showdown.
V1 Button: fine player but not an overly thinking type. Covers me by ~$20
V2 SB: Good player, appears to be overly aggressive on a passive table. Willing to bet thin and call thin. Has a massive stack of over ~$1000 in front of him. Appears to understand pot odds but sometimes doesn’t consider individual opponent when making calls (this is because he keeps calling down OMC type for small bets with 2nd pair for small bets)Preflop: 4 players call an UTG $7 raise and I make it $35. V1 on the Button calls and V2 in the SB calls and all others fold.
Flop 8c8dJc: So… that’s good. This begins the first real decision I am going to have. With the action on me I check. V1 checks and V2 bets $100. I decide to call $100 after thinking for ~15 seconds intending to try check and either calling a turn bet or Jamming on the river. V1 min-raises to $200, V2 calls and I put in the rest of my chips, about $62 raise. Both call and I am now sitting pretty.
So the question is does my check call then shove make any amount of sense? The vast majority of my hands that i want to call here are going to bet the flop not check, hands like AK, KQ, QTc, QQ+ Axcc all want to try to take the pot down here with such a small SPR. Even any J I would bet for value, maybe not QJ into two players?
What are your thoughts?
If you’re a lot deeper (say all 3 are $1,000 or deeper and it’s a true no limit game) then your raise doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. You might scare off flush draws that are drawing dead (outside of runner-runner for a bigger boat). I’d have to think at least one player has a flush draw and one has an 8 – I would want to keep both of these players in since you smashed the flop and are only behind 88 and the most outs anyone can have on you is 2 (T9cc for the straight flush draw). In this situation just jam since you have so little left behind they are going to call.
Deeper, I think you have to flat most of your range here. What are you ever back 3-betting on this flop? Maybe T9cc (or QTcc) (assuming this is even in your 3-bet preflop range). Maybe AAc? It just doesn’t make much sense for you do 3-bet this if you’r really deep. You’re going to bet this flop or check-raise if you want to take it down with a bluff. Check – call – jam just screams strength or maniac bluff, which I don’t think is your image.
Yeah I agree with John here. It seems kinda weird to look at, but with your stack size if you had gone to the turn with only about $60 behind, it’s pretty obvious it’ll go into the pot. Plus jamming for another $60 on top of what they had already put in there wouldn’t run them off at this point. If you had another $4-500+ behind then just continue with the check calling would be the route to take.
Hi David,
I agree with John as well; the additional $60 shouldn’t affect the action but if you were deeper then calling should best since you’d want to keep in all your opponent’s semi-bluffs, and their value hands will most likely pay you off by the river anyway.
Also you mentioned V2 is in the SB but also the action began with you on the flop, V1 checks and V2 bets 100. V2 should be acting first and if you and V1 check then the action would check through. Is it possible you just mislabeled the player positions or action?
Thanks!
Robert, yes I did misstate, V2 checked and then I checked. They were both to my left and I was labing in terms of their position away from me.
Thank you all for your input. My question was mainly on whether it is better to check call rather then check Jam given I would be left with less than a pot sized bet after a check call. I have very little experience playing deep, most people’s stacks are generally around 150BB or less and playing in anywhere opf 50BB to 100B max raise really messes with the ability to bluff get draws to fold. I played in a session last week where everyone about 250BB but most were down for doing a bit of gambling, dark bets, dark raises things like that.
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