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Hey guys,
Just wanted to share a hand I played a few weeks ago. Not sure how interesting it is, but it ends up being a pretty big pot so I thought I’d share.
Game: Talking Stick Resort $3/5 spread limit (max bet is $500 per action). Buy-in: $300-1500.
V1 (UTG): Mid 30’s black guy. Starting Stack around $3,000. Been playing all night, falling asleep at the table at times.
V2 (MP2): 55-60 y/o white guy. Starting stack around $1300. Definitely not OMC. Opened a few hands and showed down stuff like T6 suited. He’s directly to my left. He’s been holding his call/raise chips in his hand preflop, so I know exactly what he’s going to do in some of the hands. This is significant for this hand.
Me (MP1): Starting stack $843 (bought in for $800, been running average).
Preflop: V1 limps, I have QJdd. Planning to raise, but I see V2 holding $5 in his hand signifying he’s just going to call. I raise to $25, predictably V2 calls. SB calls, V1 calls (maybe one other caller in LP, I forget). Pot is $100-125.
Flop: QhJh6D. I flop top two. Checks to me, I bet $45. V2 asks how much, once he’s told he pretty much snap raises to $145. SB tanks for 30 seconds, then folds. V1 tanks for almost a minute, then calls.
Given the action here, what’s my play?
Not a great spot. SB tanking sounds like he may have folded a Q or a J, which is a tad unfortunate. V1 seems like a draw to me, nothing else should warrant thinking that hard in my opinion. there’s 1 combo of Qs and 1 combo of Js V2 could have, and 3 combos of 6s. If V1 and V2 are both on draws, they have some of each other’s outs. possible there’s a straight draw out there, it’d be a bit disguised and could be in for that cheap pre-flop cost
I keep revising the below the more I think. my gut said call, so after tanking I’d have called…maybe?
Lots of nasty stuff possible, but not a lot that is currently ahead. Doesn’t sound like a jam (or $500 rather) would fold either of them out, but maybe V1 would fold. So raising (which I don’t think there is a sizing for raise other than limit) might be good to get V1 to fold his draw.
Calling isn’t my favorite play here. You’re out of position, and there are a lot of turn cards that are bad for you. Maybe some bricks you can call, bet, or check-call. A Q or J is gin, but that’s 4 outs. any K, 10, 6, or heart is pretty terrible. that being said, you close the action and can see the turn for 100 more.
folding is appealing, as you get out of the way of these draws. it would have been about 3/3.5 to 1 on the odds, and there’s a lot indicating you may already be behind. gross board against two players, out of position. But that’s pretty nitty, as you very well could be ahead currently. which if you are, then why not raise limit to try to force those draws out.
alright, I’m going with a max raise ($500, right?). You’ve repped strength by betting into them post-flop, keep it going with effective all-in here.
I think i talked myself into all 3 options at least 2 different times each…#overthinking
I like the opening preflop with this hand.
We’re less than 100BB effective to start the hand. We flopped big on this draw heavy board and out of position. Villains only value hands are 5 combos of hands at we are behind on the flop. I’d like a raise for two-reason:
1) we can get value from Qx, Jx, pair plus back-door draws
2) deny his equity from: flush draws, staright-draws, 89hh, 109hh, AKhh (let me know if I missed anyting)I think a raise to $300 would be a good sizing, and a pot-size-jam on a safe turn would be the optimal play here.
I think you guys both got it pretty well (although we’re about 165bb deep, Han). My thoughts:
I think I’m ahead here about 98% of the time here, maybe more. I’m never folding here on this flop for anything.
V2 can never have QQ and JJ given the fact that he wanted to limp pre-flop, and I honestly down he could have 66 for the same reason since he was raising a lot of garbage. This was a pretty reliable tell all day. I think he could have Q6 suited, J6 suited, 6xhh, and maybe some combo straight/flush draws, but I think he’s raising his suited connectors.
V1 can never have QQ and JJ given his limp call. I think going to raise those hands with all the dead money in the pot. 66 is possible, and I’m more worried about him having me beat than V2. But I think he’s got a ton of draws here giving his passiveness and his tanking.
So I took some time on my decision what to do – mainly, my decision was what I would do given the card that came on the turn. Hearts are obviously bad for since it brings in the flush, an A or 9 brings in KT, K or 8 brings in T9. I’m not too worried about the T since no one should have AK here. The only time a T is bad for me is if a villain specifically has 89hh. (It was actually funny, one of the pros I always talk sports with was giving me shit for Hollywooding this decision. Joking, of course).
I actually settled to raise to $545 (400 more). There was about $450 dead money in the pot, so a pot-sized raise was a good size. This leaves me with $273 left, and it’s going in on any clean turn. I didn’t want to go $500 since the max raise is fairly rare at this game, and I just feel like $400 is a little more manageable of a bet (even though 3-betting post flop is pretty rare). I’m happy to win it right here.
V2 asks how much it is and calls within about 10 seconds. I think this is a great sign as I don’t think he’s ever got me beat here. V1 tanks for what seemed like 60-90 seconds… and calls. I was pretty shocked. Still planning to jam any clean card.
On to the turn, pot is 1760. Turn is a J, and now I know I’ve got the nuts 100% of the time. Planning to Hollywood jam this card. But, V1 thinks for about 30 seconds, and shoves out a stack of green ($500). I was absolutely dumbfounded by this. Does he have the same hand? Jx? Whatever, didn’t matter. I Hollywood for about 10 seconds and jam in my final $273, hoping to get V2 along.
As soon as I jam, V2 says “That jack was a bad card for me, that jack was a bad card for me.” He kind of hems and haws, and looks at his cards one last time. He’s got Q6. We both flopped 2 pair. He finally folds.
Turn comes a meaningless offsuit 7. V1 looks at me like he’s giving up. I hesitate for a second because I can’t believe I’m about to scoop a $2,300 pot. V1 turns over T9 offsuit (1 heart), for the naked straight draw he turned into a bluff on the turn.
I think a year ago, I would have called the flop worried I was beat and won a much smaller pot. But now that I’m more confident in my ranging, and combining it with the live intangibles, I re-raised the turn and created a massive pot. Obviously some luck given the two pair over two pair on a wet board, but I made the best decision for the time on the flop and I wouldn’t have done that a year ago. I think it was the right decision to 3bet the flop even in the few instances that I was beat by a set of sixes, or in the event that someone draws out. Poker is about making the right decisions given the info you have at the time, even though sometimes you lose.
Imma have to re-read this a few times, but glad my mixed up thinking ended up getting it about right in your two’s opinions. Great hand John!! What a great turn card to remove most of the sweat.
Thanks guys. That’s the one thing I think these hand reviews help – my thinking process (and speed of) in hand. It’s a lot easier breaking down a hand in front of your computer, with all the time in the world and no money on the line, but doing it at the table, in real time and real money, is quite a different thing.
Reading and reviewing your hands have helped me a lot, so I hope that I can do the same. This hand obviously worked out well for me, but I think I would have been happy with my play had I ran into a set of sixes or someone made a straight/flush on me.
Nice John! I agree as well, the thinking process is so vital, it’s also the #1 thing Johnnie and I worked on as well. If we’re not thinking, we’re just gambling =)
Reading and sharing hands really does help. The average line-up at the casino or card-rooms don’t even record or review hands.
It’s great you’re in that frame of mind, even if a set or straight/flush came. It is one of the hardest things to deal with, “playing it right and still losing.” This was one of the first replies you sent to me. Really hard to accept at first, but when we understand the underlying math, it gets easier.
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