Competent-and-Lucky Villain v Neither-of-Those Hero

[Hans Griese]

Ok, had a weird night. Playing the biggest game I ever have – it was a $1/$3, but often a 1/3/6, and for two hours we had two super splashy players who were also very competent…although they like to put max pressure on the river by bombing, so if I play them again I think I can get value from them. I played pretty snugly all night, but there are a few hands I need real help on.

The main villain in both hands is the best player at the table…or luckiest (or both). He came from another table with about $1500 (max buy-in was $400). They let him play with that monster stack briefly, then had him cut it down to $400. He was very loose pre-flop, and seemed to know who to pressure and how. Very good player, albeit loose. He left the table twoish hours later and had run his stack back up to about $800-$900.

Hand 1, the villain is very new to the table, so I don’t know much about him other than he’s fun (talkative) and has this massive stack. (Effective is me at $350 for this hand)
KQ clubs UTG, I open to $12. MP (Villain) 3-bets to 45, someone before me calls, and I call.
Flop: KJ9, 1 club. Checks to Villain, he bets $50, only I call.
Turn: blank, I don’t remember it, didn’t do anything to the board. This checks through.
River: an Ace. I check, he bets $100. I tank fold. He shows 9-10 offsuit. So he bluffed me off the best hand.

I don’t hate how I played the hand, but I just hate the result. Is there something else I can be doing here? A 3-bet, C-bet on flop, check turn, and then bet the Ace river just looks so much like an A, I don’t think I’d be good that often. Knowing what I know now I would have called, but that’s a player-dependent decision. Basically any card but the A I would have led the river, so maybe I should lead the river anyways? An A should be better for the UTG range, but he did 3-bet me….I really don’t know on this one.

Hand 2) Same villain, about 3 orbits later. Villain has the straddle on. Two limps to me in the SB, I look down at two black Aces. I raise it to $25, only V calls. Flop is Qc7s4s. I bet $50, he calls. Turn is 8s. I check, he bets $80, I snap-call. River is the 6 spades. I check, he thinks and then bets only $100. I tank flat-call this, even though I have the nut flush. Why? Because he has been exceptionally loose, and I think he’d have re-raised my open with anything premium/broadway/high-connectors. So I had put him on low-connectors suited or not. Makes sense then he calls the flop, could easily have a pair, or be open-ended/gutter. The Turn gets him there sometimes (either flush or straight or two-pair), but I can’t go anywhere with nut flush-draw and over-pair. The river legit scares me, as 5s6x suddenly is nutted…which is exactly what he had.

So I avoid losing the maximum here because I’m playing scared, although I did think through the hand and arrive at my decision logically. I think against most opponents I’d be jamming this river, as no one should really have the 5 of spades here. So go ahead, rip me on this one, I again have no idea what I should really do differently. If I hadn’t had the A of spades, I’d have folded, but cest la vie.

I did get AAs about half an orbit later, and villain had KKs. We got it in pre-flop, and I held, so I doubled up, but it was doubling up only a $150 stack instead of $250 or even a full $400.

Last hand of the night, I had JJs against two other players…one who had 9s and one 10s, the board ran out 275108. Lost $75 on that one, which sucked.

I felt like I played decently well on the night, but obviously some hands that weren’t great, and I was definitely playing a little scared due to the higher-than-usual stakes. Anyways, I’d appreciate thoughts on those two hands….I find it very hard to play against these higher-stakes guys who play very loosely, but are definitely good (aka better-than-me) players.

Cheers and Good Luck all!

[DeeKay]

Hand 1:
Basically you are telling me this is a modern player. He’s going to 3-bet/4-bet a lot. Which means he has a very wide range of opening hands.
I like the raise. I like the call from his raise. We have to be careful with an unknown player, but your intial read is enough to think he’s going to be playing wide range. The KJ9 flop is pretty dynamic. The fact that he c-bets is a little loose, but you have top pair, great kicker and drawing to the gutter straight. Love the flop call. I like the turn check to the aggressor. He lets it check through. Immediately I’m putting him on a weak hand. I’m preparing for a bet or snap call on the river. Thinking you should feel comfortable with that you have the best hand. The Ace is a horrific card. However, we know he’s likely playing a wide range. Have to be careful of straights and of course an ace. I like your check and his $100 bet, to me, smells weak again. Pot has about $200 in the pot. It feels a bit light if he’s that good. I like a call here, and that was my instinct before I even read what you did. I like it for two reason. I think there’s a pretty good chance you are good, and even if you are wrong, you’ve sent the message that you are not to be bullied.
Hand 2: Very interesting.
Your bet post flop is a little heavy to me. Again, player with a wide range of hands, so the fact that you are strong, we want to apply max punishment. I would have bet a little lighter to make sure he stay around. Although he was open ended, he wasn’t going anywhere anyway. But ok, you love the call. Turn check… I don’t like this show of weakness. I would have liked to see you bet here. Downsize bet is ok, but I think we still should be betting for 3 streets of value, especially since we have the As. Turns out it doesn’t make a difference as he makes is straight. He’s going no where. So your check turns out to be a save. River is just disgusting and very good of you to see that 5-6 is very much in his range and great no raise. Not much you could have done there but just unfortunate. It will happen. What I don’t like is that you were playing scared. Playing a loose aggressive player like that is scary because pots will be big and very difficult to put him on a hand given the wider range. But also a wonderful opportunity to play back at him. Especially if you have a tight image. Brad had recommended reading “The Course” by Ed Miller. I just finished reading it and its fantastic. Great for a 1-2 player who knows their ABCs of poker. However, sometimes they just get lucky hands and there’s not much you can do about it. Typically if you have a premium hand and a loose player is 3-betting you… you have to play your high equity value hand strong.
It is scary when you step up on stakes. But makes sure you have the proper bankroll and force yourself to play the hand the way you know you should regardless of the stakes. Be comfortable that the guy may get lucky or even have a huge hand… getting felted is part of the game. You’re not going to be a winner every time you play so be ok with the possibility of that happening. This should allow you to play at your best and not fearful of the higher stakes and folding because of it.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong

[Frank]

Hand 1 I think you played a little too passively. A check raise to the agro OP could have set you up to either open bet the turn a little higher, or if you had a feeling he might bet again, another check raise which probably would have won you the hand with a lot more value. I’ll give you a B- on this hand.

The second hand, you played quite brilliantly, IMHO. Too many poker players, even experienced ones, get married to AA way to easily. Your check call on the turn is good, and your call on the made flush was understandable as well. The fact you flat called when you hit what many would consider the nut flush, which obviously was not, is what separates net losing players from those with +EV. you get an A, and a lollipop for extra credit!

Fun stuff man, thanks for sharing.

[Patrick Brennan]

A player like this I’m probably limp raising pre-flop when out of position with medium premium hands (like KQs) and opening 4 betting big premium hands. But easier said when you have the information after the fact.

First hand: I don’t usually open KQs under the gun but that’s a personal choice. That being said, I like the open then flat pre-flop. I prefer to lead on the flop here or check raise just because even though this was your first hand against him I’m sure you already had a feeling of what type of player he is. You have top pair with a backdoor flush and you have blockers to other premium hands. On the turn, if you check call the flop and a blank comes here I think you need to lead out with a strong bet. This tells your opponent that you have a hand and are not afraid. By check calling flop and checking turn you give the impression that you have a hand that you would be willing to fold… I’d only do this against a player like this when I have the nuts or close to it. River fold… I think you knew this was a bad decision even as you were throwing your cards in the muck… there are a lot of hands that can bet for value that you beat and a lot of missed draws that can bluff here based on your passive line.

Hand 2: I actually like your play. You raised strong pre and made a pot sized bet on the flop knowing exactly who you were up against. When the turn hit you have the presence of mind to realize your opponent could have 56 in their range and make the smart play of check/ calling. You can’t fold with over pair and drawing to the second nuts… the river…. fuck…. he hits the one card in the deck that lets him win any more money from you. Any other spade and you take down the pot and any non-spade probably gives you some reason to fold. You played it well and lost the minimum… I think most people (myself included) get stacked here.

Don’t play scared… I hope to see a post from you soon telling us you played him again and stacked him!

[Author]

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