Cooler or bad play?

[mark]

Hi,

I was playing at a loose 5/5 home game. Stress loose. I was effective with $550. I was UTG with JJ and the button straddled to $15. I flatted, knowing that a raise would get called and hoping someone else would raise (and the plan was just to flat). As expected, the most active player raised (MP) raised to $50. Cutoff called, I flatted. I debated raising but didn’t want to get it all in with jacks preflop.

Flop was 7h4s3s. I checked to MP who bet $75. His range could be very wide, including 56x but also any flush draws, straight draws and one pair. I held the jack of spades. Cutoff flats and so do I. I considered raising, but thought I’d fold out worse only and thought that MP would call with any draw.

Turn was Qc. I checked. MP looked at the cutoff stack and bet $400. Cutoff folded, and I tank called for my stack. I thought he’d have enough draws and lower pair cards to justify a call. I was dead to the nuts and drawing super thin to two pair. I wasn’t overly concerned about just him holding a naked queen. I had under represented my hand and had to go with the plan. He showed A7s for the flush draw and one pair. We ran it twice and he hit a spade on both rivers.

I know that run out was unlucky and that doesn’t bother me too much. But the question is should I have raised along the way? I was holding a strong hand against an aggressive player; was my line best ignoring the results?

–M.

• This topic was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by mark. Reason: Typo fix

[Patrick]

IMO, in a super loose game you should be playing tighter than your opponents (so you regularly have the best of it) and aggressively when you do play hands. I’m not a fan of the call call mentality with JJ here. Had you said you flat called hoping for a re-pop so that you could come over the top… I could get behind that. The way you played this JJ hand pre flop is like how many ppl play hands like 66 and are set mining. If you want to play JJ like a smaller pair multi way and set mine with it, thats fine.

The way it seems to me is that pre flop you played it like a small pair, and post flop played it like a big pair. I feel like you need to pick one and go with that for the whole hand. Raising preflop is supposed to narrow opponents range and thin the field. You say had you raised, you would have just gotten called because its a loose game. how many people limped the $15? There were at least 4 of you in the hand from what you said, but were there more? You played it multi way with a 1 pair hand. had you the opportunity (I know you didnt) to re-pop pre flop you would have probably ended up heads up for the flop, or just scooped the pot right there. or if you raise that button stradle to $60, do you still think you get 4 callers?

So when the pot basically limps around multi way and you have 1 pair OOP and you see fireworks go off… is this really the best spot to get it in? MP open bets the flop $75 into a $60(at least) pot with at least 3 players left to act behind him. 2 callers. Then open shoves $400 at a $285 (at least) pot on the turn into 2 players who just called $75 each?

When the money gets in the middle, you only have 2nd pair with no draws on a coordinated board where you could be drawing near dead in a loose game where someone has told you they are willing to invest a ton of money in their hand. I just feel like in this game you can find better spots to get all in when you have a hand higher in your range. what can JJ beat besides a draw?

now, in this specific instance you got sucked out on. yes. but his range of hands that he could be playing like this, almost the whole range is ahead of you except A7. I mean maybe he gets crazy with TT also? i dont know. but i feel like in the long run this is a loosing situation.

[mark]

Hi Patrick,

Thanks so much for the feedback. I don’t disagree with anything g you wrote. One thing to clarify, the villain raised to $50 preflop and I flatted. It definitely felt passive. I was relying only on the strength of a marginal hand. I wrote that preflop I didn’t want to raise to get it all in, but at the end of the hand I was will to call it off without really defining the villian’s hand. Passive and inconsistent.

Thanks again! I appreciate the feedback.

–Mark.

[Grant]

I’m ok with the call pre-flop as Jacks are pretty middle of the road. I think that you should have raised on the flop, simply to get more information. If they fold then, hey, you just made $100+ with Jacks. But depending if he calls or raises will give you a better sense of what they have.

I had a similar hand where I had Jacks and raised pre-flop to $30 and got reraised to $75. I made the call and the flop came 10 high. When he reraised pre, I put him on a better pocket pair or AK, but since I was first to act on the flop I knew I had to bet in order to know for sure. I bet $75 and he reraised completing his story. I folded and he showed Queens. Now that is a cooler, but when you allow them to get there by under repping your hand, well it’s not good play.

Hope this helps.

[Noam Shahar]

If it’s a looser table, I would just raise upfront since people are likely to call wide. If you want to limp, I would always limp raise to get as much money into the pot when I have a good hand and am likely ahead. And I don’t think you should be afraid to get in 110 big blinds (even less technically since there was a straddle) preflop with JJ in a loose game. Just my thoughts on the hand.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Noam Shahar.

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