Criticized for my raise.

[Heath]

I will say up front, you have to forgive me with this posting. Didn’t take notes on exactly how it went down and I don’t remember the exact bet amounts on the flop and turn but the way it ends I feel there is enough info to get a good bit of feedback on the action. Looking back at everything now I already feel like I misplayed the flop, but the end of the hand is where I was really having a hard time making a decision.

Playing 1/2NL at Harrah’s Cherokee (WSOP circuit event) early Tuesday morning, I sat down some point after 5AM so this was the only 1/2 game that was still going. Again, forgive me on the lack of exact detail but I was somewhere in middle position and picked up red 77’s. I open to $8 and had two callers, SB (LAG) and UTG (TAG). Flop comes out As7s4c. SB leads out for $1x, UTG and I both call. Turn puts another spade on the table though what it was I can’t recall for anything which one, SB leads again for about same amount $1x, UTG calls and I see the obvious flush may be there already but I call. Pot is $90 or so at this point.

Off to a river card which as Neeme would say is favorable. 7c comes out and I try not to give away that I’m overly comfortable with it. This strangely made things difficult for me. SB leads out for a small $25, UTG tanks for a little while and looks reluctant but still calls.

I was trying to balance out a raise that would either get SB to jam or get both of them to come along if SB opted to just call, yet an amount that didn’t scream nuts. Had about $350 in front of me here and knew a jam would be way too strong but had no clue how to size this. Without trying to spend too long in the tank, I settled on a raise to $75 and UTG yells something about never getting a board to pair up under his flopped set…. SB tanks for a good while and I honestly was expecting him to jam, but he only called. UTG sits there for a while and mumbles about how those situations never work out in his favor and starts kicking himself, but makes the call as well. I show the quads, SB shows a K high flush and UTG shows the Q high flush. It was a nice pot sure enough and I managed to get paid on my quads, but 3 guys that were not involved in the hand immediately all started off about how I could have gotten a lot more and how my raise was too small etc, etc. Because you know, everyone becomes a poker expert when a hand like that goes down. I took their criticism with a grain of salt at the moment, but now I can’t get that question of “what if” out of my head.

Looking back at it I do know I made a mistake upfront with there being two spades and an A on the flop, I definitely should have raised my set and had this pot much bigger by the river. But looking strictly at the river action, what are your thoughts? I’ve been thinking on it since it went down and can’t decide what may have been a better play.

[John S]

I think the river sizing is really good to get both players to call. At some point, you’re going to get UTG to fold if you go too big. You have to decide if you want to get both players to call or just one.

So you could have sized up a touch ($85, $100) and still gotten both players to call, but since the both tanked I’m not sure how much bigger you could have gone.

Or you could go really big ($175-200) and try to get a single caller. But your hand does look exactly like what it is (full-house or better), even to a 1/2 player. SB said something about it, and UTG tanked. You’d have to get one player to call $125 to break even. Nut flush should call a bigger bet here, but you never know.

It’s also really awkward for SB since he has a player behind. If you raise big, he’s less likely to call given UTG is still to act and could be slow-playing a full-house to entice you to call.

[Han]

I don’t think you did anything wrong post flop. It’s very difficult to get max value when the board pairs, and you have an unbeatable hand. I do agree that you could’ve raised the flop. It’s very likely we get called by and Ax, straight and flush draws here. Our hand is still vulnerable to the draws and we want to raise for value and deny their equity as well.

As played, the donk-lead and caller in-between have a lot of bluff and draws in their range against your hand. No on will fault you for calling the flop and turn.

The pot is $90 by the river. The SB lead for $25 looks like he is scared of the board pairing and UTG throws in a reluctant call, so they are approaching this board with caution and trying to get a cheap showdown.

So the pot is now $140.

Jamming for $350 is a polarizing bet. You either got it or your bluffing, and more often than not, you got it and our hand is very face-up. You’d have to know your opponent very well to jam, for instance, if he was a calling station and never folding the nut-flush.

Your $75 raise is just over 1/2 bet. I think that is fine since you got them both to call. I would’ve chosen 2/3 or 3/4 pot. ~$100 in this spot. The SB would call and the UTG has the pot odds to call as well. Always try to bet or raise in relation to the pot.

I agree with John about going bigger to get one opponent to call instead of two. I don’t think at these stakes, people are folding nut flush facing a river raise.

As played, you got them both to call, where they clearly made a crying call. Nice hand.

[William Arrington]

We all make mistakes. Its hard to know proper sizing and even the pros mess it up when they are trying to get you to continue or even fold. Knowing a range doesnt mean you know the exact cards someone is holding… even more then that.. mistakes happen. I was in a middle round of a tournoment and went to raise 6k but accidently raised 1.5k into a pot of about 9k. The guy after me actually let go a better hand because the raise was so out of line for me he froze. I took the pot. After the hand i told him what happened and he laughed. I wasnt wearing my glassses and the color for the 500 is purple and the the 5k chip was a bluish purple. I grabbed the wrong chip.

[Author]

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