Get the Max?

[Hans Griese]

So, CO with QJ suited. There’s an early position raise to 6, with 5 callers (including me). Flop comes Q4J rainbow (score!). Early position donks for $10, gets 2 callers before me, and I just flat call. I’m hoping to trap a bit, and downplay my hand strength. The turn is an offsuit 3. He bets just $15, so a down-size bet (pots about $72). This gets no one out, so 4 ways to a river…which comes another Q. There is a flush draw on board now, but I’ve got the nuts. He bets $25 (into a pot of 132), it folds to me. I make it $105 to go. He eventually tank-folds, folding a Q face-up.

I figured he probably was strong to barrel into that many players that many times – I had him on an overpair or a mid-strength Q. I sized my raise on the river up a) because his bets were small compared to the pot and b) I didn’t think he would fold – my bet may look bluff-ish, or he could be just too strong in his mind.

Is there a better bet to get value here?

Follow-up, we talked as he was leaving – he had Q2, so no kicker to his trips. He said he may have called a min raise, but that’s just a maybe.

[John S]

You gotta start building a pot earlier! Trapping rarely works for max value, and on a somewhat wet board like this one there are a lot of bad cards. There are a lot of cards that can make a straight, and with a bet and two calls you are up against at least one straight draw. And A, 9, or 8 could be very bad for you.

You need to raise this flop. Even if it’s small, say to $25, you’ve got to put money in the pot sooner rather than later. I doubt you are getting any folds for $15 more. And bet/raise the turn as well.

River raises are just so often for value that it’s not surprising that you got a fold from a weak Q. You should get paid off here, but it’s hard to imagine your raise is something worse than a Q.

[Hans Griese]

Huh…I had just skipped to analyzing post-river and didn’t think about building it earlier. My only concern (as the villains hand ended up being) was that I wouldn’t get any callers. I guess long term those draws would get there and I’d lose more money not raising flop.

Thanks!

[Chuck M]

Yeah, same as John S, I’d say you should raise the flop. If we think about the other players ranges, the early position opener may have a lot of straight draws, gutshot (AT+, broadways cards like KQ, KJ, KT, QT, JT). He might also have an overpair, but i doubt he would have cbet that small with that many players behind.

Then, the callers. I would think this board hits their ranges too.

And if you’re worried about them folding when you raise, maybe that just means their hands are so weak that they would give up turn (check/fold). In other words, the value of trapping may not be as good as raising. My humble opinion 😉

Nice hand
… And quite surprised seeing Q2 opened from early position 🙂

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