ICM Suicide

[Noam Shahar]

I final tabled an online tourney as second in chips and lost it all to the chip leader in what I think was a huge error, ultimately coming in 9th. I know stack preservation is huge deep in tournaments. I should generally avoid big stacks when I have a big stack myself as the chips I hold onto are more valuable than the chips I gain. But what should I do if I have a premium hand with an actual decision to make?
Here’s the hand (I have the AsKs):

play.globalpoker.com/poker-
client/poker/10/hand/5b1dde81aa4
b050aeac4a286

Buy in was $218 and we were well into the money. Final table payout was a follows:
1. $11,068
2. $7,998
3. $6,063
4. $4,515
5. $3,096
6. $2,580
7. $2,064
8. $1,548
9. $1,058

• This topic was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Noam Shahar.

[David Wibel]

SO blinds are 6k/12k and you have 35BB in the SB. When UTG raises to 2.2BB, especially the big stack we need to give that some respect. Once it folds to you I like the raise, maybe make it a bit bigger, 2.5x but that’s a bit nit picky. He then essentially min 3 bets to 110k, 9BB essentially. Here I think you can call and see what the flop brings. You will have over 20BB if you call-fold and can shove if you pick up some good equity. As you mentioned it’s a premium so folding is out of the question but we only have Ace high and he can have a lot of pairs and once he 3 bets I would guess 77+, AK, and KQs, maybe KQo. I would expect a lot of his other hands to call and see the flop instead of min 3 betting.

Once you see the flop you can decide on how to play from there. You will still be the 3rd biggest stack with over 20BB and a good chance to ladder up. Would you have had only 10BB then shoving is better and 15BB is an easier re-raise and call the all in.

If you decide you just want to play for the win and the money isn’t important than 4 bet shoving here is good. I forces him to fold a lot of his hands though you aren’t likely to be ahead once he calls.

[Noam Shahar]

Thanks for the response David. I agree with you in that I think I should be calling his min 4-bet. When he opens utg and then 4bets one of the few players at the table that can put a huge dent in his stack, I wonder if he’s even more nutted than the hands you suggest. Maybe even just QQ+, AK, and possibly some bluff combos like A5ss or A4ss.

When I plugged in the stacks into an ICM calculator, my remaining chips that I jammed had a value of $5K. And had I won the full double up, my stack would have been worth $7.5K. Had my jam folded him out, then it would be even less. So from an ICM perspective I think I should be much more conservative against the chip leader and just call and see a flop.

My goal is almost always to win but at the same time, laddering up and winning a few extra thousand would have been very helpful to my bankroll, especially with the world series going on now as I want to play a few events.

[David Wibel]

Your welcome Noam. He can quite easily be more nutted than I am thinking, the KQ hands are essentially his “blocker bluffs” and it just depends on if he is willing to flip with his low pairs. Also, I am not a tournament player or play live right now. Life has taken poker out of my potential hobbies for the time being but I enjoy the mathematical and psychological analysis of things.

The reason I asked if you were only going for the win is that will change your intentions with some hands. If winning a specific tournament (like the main event or a local championship or something) will mean more than the money you could earn by playing conservatively then be aggressive. 3 bet and 4 bet jam, open jam with a lot more hands. Had almost any other player at the table I think you would be really happy to get this in against them.

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