Is that when you say table is bad and you stand up and leave?

[Rasmus]

Hey guys!

So yesterday I played a Sunday sess in Perth Crown Casino for about 7 hours. First 5 hours were good, spotted some bad players and played well against them. Once they had left and table was filled with other players I started literally bleeding money. There was not many raises. Over 2 hours there were probably around 10 raised pot and I was the original raiser at least half of the time.

There was a lot of limping going on so I started limping in LP too. Is it OK to start limping Kxs Qxs in LP or should I still try to raise? When I raised I got many calls and missed flops and didn’t get many cbets through. Was literally bleeding money.

So my main question is, how to exploit those limping passive players? Should I limp too? Should I raise a lot? Should I just be super patience and wait for my hands?

Or is this when you say the table is crap and you stand up and leave?

Thanks guys, feeling pretty lost atm.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Rasmus.

[John S]

There was a topic similar to this about a month back, and there were a few different opinions. I think it was posted in the “other topic” section.

My take on this is that some of the lower limit games can play more like a home/family game – people are there to play hands, see flops, and have fun. There’s not a lot of raising, and even a 10X raise isn’t much money, so you end up getting a lot of callers. When you raise and miss, you end up losing a lot of money fast. Even pocket aces has less than 50% equity once you get 4 or 5 callers. Not saying not to raise these hands, just keep that in mind when you’re 6-ways to the flop there’s a good chance someone hit something.

Getting up and leaving is certainly a fine option. If you’re not having fun, or the table isn’t good for winning, why stay? Problem is, sometimes these games are all that may run in a certain area. That’s up to you to decide why you’re there, how often you can play, etc.

If you’re going to play these games, you have to keep it simple. Don’t bluff, bet your good hands, don’t make hero calls because people just usually aren’t bluffing.

As far as a raising range, just go with the premiums. Opening light is going to get you called anyways, so I would save the money. I usually don’t raise 99 in these games because when you get called by multiple players, you are basically raising to set-mine.

And I absolutely would avoid just waiting for big hands pre-flop. You end up not making much because you either have to raise so big you get no callers and only with a few blinds, or people just don’t call you because you play two pots an hour. You pretty much have to cooler people to win money like this.

As far as limping, I would only limp hands that you are prepared to call a raise with – pocket pairs, suited connectors/semi-connectors, broadway cards, and perhaps suited Aces and Kings. I guess it depends on the table dynamic and how often people are getting paid off with big hands (if everyone folds when there’s a flush possibility on board, your suited cards lose a lot of value). A lot of players end up playing way too many hands in these games, and you end up bleeding money the same way as if you are raising often.

[Dave Thompson]

Rasmus,

That definitely sounds like a bad table that I would probably leave if I had other options. If you don’t have other options or are looking to stick around for whatever reason, then the suggestions from the previous commenter are all good. I would only add a couple things.

1. You might want to try increasing your standard preflop raise size. If you’re raising to 4x or 5x preflop and routinely getting 4 or 5 callers, that’s definitely not a good thing. Ideally, when you raise preflop, you want to be no more than 3-way and preferably heads-up to the flop. So you might try increasing to 6x or 7x and see if that achieves the desired effect. If not, then maybe 8x or even 10x. If that still doesn’t do it, then you’re playing with people who either are not very skilled at the game or just don’t care about the money at the stakes you’re playing or both. If you’re not comfortable raising bigger, then again it might be time to change games or call it a night.

2. Regarding your question on limping, I’d never recommend open-limping (i.e. limping when you’re the first player to enter the pot). In that case, you should always either raise or fold. But if there are 2 or more limpers in front of you, then limping behind with the lower part of your opening range (like suited connectors, small pairs, weak suited aces) is okay. You’ll just have to play more cautiously postflop in those cases since so many players are seeing the flop. Also I totally agree with the previous commenter that you should never limp if you’re not prepared to call a raise. It’s fine to fold the lower part of your range to a 3-bet, but if you get in the habit of limping and then folding to a single raise, that will be a serious leak in your game.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Dave

[Chuck M]

I agree with both previous members, good advice.

Imo I think it’s ok to call limps IP with hands that do well in multiway pots, hands with more implied odds than direct value. Those connectors, suited or not, some gappers, small-mid pocket pairs. Then you try to hit straights, 2pairs, sets, you can play all AXs, and try to hit flushes. By calling limps (or over limping) with those hands, you don’t lose much when you miss and you’ll most likely win a big pot when you hit.

You could still raise your premium hands, but if you think you won’t thin the field, maybe I would downsize a little, with multiple callers, you’ll build a pot for post-flop play, and if you miss and have to fold, you still lose less by raising 4x than had you raised 8-10x. The thing is, you must keep in mind that the purpose of your raise is to build a pot, not narrowing the field. That might be unconventional and I’m not saying it’s the way to go, but that’s just an idea that crossed my mind 🙂

[Rasmus]

Thanks Guys! I’ve read it multiple times now and find it really useful! Kind of looking forward to these situations now.
Cheers!!

[Noam Shahar]

That sounds like a great table actually. Anytime there’s a lot of loose passive players, you’re swings will be wilder but your potential profit can be huge. I’ve played on many tables with these types of players and I find the best strategy is to just play tight and go for big value when you have it. So rarely, if ever, bluff. These player types don’t pay attention to how many hands you play per hour and will generally call if they even remotely like their hand. I’ve had a lot of success against them just by waiting for good hands and getting thick value. Patience is the key against loose, passive fish.

[machman]

very informative

[Tosho]

This table dynamique that you described by me is soft table but cant be understimated i agree with john we had similar topic sometime ago ,i think patiently wait for spots tight range and post flop bigger sizes put some overbets in some spots ,and if you open pflop bigger sizes .That is my opinion ,gl all at the tables.

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