MGM:NH 75-150 mix – Badeucey HH

[Michael]

Ok, so not hold’em, but fixed limit using 3-6 structure ($25 base chip). SB = 2 chip; BB = 3 chip

The game is Badeucey (5-card triple draw, split pot between Badugi played with A as high and 2-7 hands). We are playing 8 handed and the table is fairly active, but usually HU by the third draw.

Hero is in SB holding 3c and 4 paint cards. Two limpers in front and I decide to call for 1 extra chip and draw 4. Behind me V1 draws 3, V2 draws 2 and V3 draws 2.

Pretty good draw, I pull 7d, 5c, 2h, Ac so now I can draw 1 to the nuts with 4s being the gin card, but also would accept 8s, 9s, maybe even Ts if they all still draw 2+. Would also accept 4x & 8x to stick for half. Since I went from 4 to 1 and Vs drew 2+ I bet. They all call.

Second draw, I take one and pull Qd, everyone else takes 2, so it seems I’m still ahead. I’m still drawing 1 to the nuts so I bet again. V1 calls, V2 folds, V3 raises. I call, V1 opts out, so its HU.

I put out my one, V3 stands pat. Uh oh. I pull Kh. Ugh. So I have a good 3-card badugi, but the 2-7 half is a crappy K high.

So what action should hero take now? Bet fold? Check fold? Bet call? Check call?

Did I play this wrong on an earlier street (other than fold pre — I get it, it could be done that way)?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Charles M]

It’s been quite some time since I’ve put in hours at badeucy. Also the highest I’ve played was 9/18 or possibly 12/24 so take my advice with a grain of salt. Figured you may not hear back much here otherwise 🙂

I think it’s standard to lead after the second draw given that you were technically ahead draw wise. That being said being oop in a split pot game I don’t think you’re going to accomplish much and could potentially cost yourself multiple bets when raised. If you had a good/decent badugi then I would definitely be betting but since you have a 3 card 7 badugi (which imo is never good for half the pot) I am personally checking here.

Now after the third draw you can assume King high should never be good unless the player who stood pat is snowing here. I think given that you are out of position it’s possible since he saw that you drew, however again in split pot games you don’t see many people snowing here as they will often get called down when people are hoping to get half the pot. So that being said I personally believe King high shouldn’t be good a large percentage of the time. As for your three card badugi, you mentioned you had a good three card. Assuming I read this correctly you have a three card 7…that is not a good three card. A good three card would be a three card 5. Perhaps even a three card 6…a three card 7 is marginal at best.

So if this was me I would most likely be check calling after the second draw and then folding after the third draw.

Hopefully someone else can chime in here with more experience. Good luck at the tables!

[Charles M]

The only real way I see you getting half here with your badugi is if your opponent was dealt a hand like 2/3/4 of one suit and then ended up making a wheel with just two suits. I just dont think this is a profitable spot to be calling long term.

[NoGambleNoFuture]

I’d say to start, in a 2 chip/3 chip structure, i get the call, but it is still not something i’d do too often. I’d really only complete and draw 4 with a 2. When you don’t pull 2-3 good cards, you are just in a bad spot.

Anyway, after the first draw, in general, you check to the “better” draws and would check raise here since you improved so much. Since its 3,2,2 hopefully you can push out the 3 card draw and maybe one other opponent, secondly, you are sort of sending off alarm bells when you draw 4 in a 4 handed pot and lead. Then again, if this game is playing super passively (considering people and limping and overlimping, maybe it is) then maybe it’s safer to bet/call there, because having it check through would be bad. Game conditions would determine that IMO, but standard play is to check raise here.

After the second draw, going 1,2,2,2 you definitely should lead here as you did. It’s a multiway pot, but you have a great 2-7 draw and a decent badugi draw, and you have balance your ranges so you aren’t super easy to read, by not only betting made badugis and what not when you are out of position and ahead on the draws. Also, because it is a limped pot and there was no raising after the first draw, the pot is pretty damn small and people would be making a big mistake drawing two for a second time. If you check, it will check back somewhat often, and again, that is a disaster. Bet-calling here is the only move you have, so on to the third draw.

Here, you bricked, the pot isn’t very large, and you are dead on the 2-7 side. If you had a 3 card badugi like 234, 235, even 245, I’d probably call, but unless there is a great read on your opponents limping range, you can’t be calling with 3 card 7s profitably. Because villain overlimped and drew 2, he almost never started with a good 3 card, and drawing 2 and patting generally represents a good 2-7 hand with who knows on the badugi, or a mediocre two way hand like 9-9 or 10-10.

Keep in mind regarding the hero-call, or bluff options, that this pot is very small for draw game standards as everywhere I have played them, they are usually games with lots of raising pre and more action post flop, there will be better spots to call down in general.

[Michael]

Thanks for your thoughts on the hand. I really should have check-raised at first draw. In this game I had seen this player fold after standing pat when the oop lead into him after the last draw. I assume he stood on something marginal like a 9 or 10 and folds to an assumed made hand when oop lead out. So I was tempted to lead out into him hoping for a fold, but ultimately, I chickened out and check-folded.

Charles – don’t worry too much about the $ value of the chips you are using to play the game — what’s more important is the strategy to accumulate mounds of chips, whatever the $ value is. 9/18 is exactly the same game as 75/150 … just played with $3 chips instead of $25.

I may have over-stated the 7-dugi as a ‘good’ badugi half. Reasonably marginal is probably more accurate. Had the 4s or 8s come in, I’m pretty sure it would have been a scoop. Any 4 any 8 would’ve almost certainly been good for the 2-7 half. As a three-card, the 7 might have been good if he had something unfortunate like 2-3-4 all of spades and was drawing for the 2-7 half, standing on a smooth 9 or 10 after 2nd. This game was passive when certain players folded and much more active when they decided to come in. In this hand that player had already folded so it was more passive than average.

[Author]

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