Quite a pickel

[DeeKay]

Really have no idea what I should have done in this situation. I figured regardless I was going to lose a lot, but the question is how could I have played it better?

1-3 home game. Experienced Villain. I have about $800 behind… Villain has me covered.
Preflop raise to $13 and two callers. I find KK and pop it up to $37. I get one caller.
Flop comes Q-8-4 rainbow. About as dry of a board as you can get. I open up for $65. Villain thinks for a bit and then raises to $170. And here lies the pickle. Could be top-top, could be a set, and villain is a good creative player who might just be putting me on AK. I re-raise to $400. After a short thought, Villain shoves. I cry and complain for awhile and then fold face up as clearly I’m facing a set of 8’s. He shows me the set of 8’s.

The question is how to limit this damage. The only play I can think I could have done was to call the flop raise. Get a 5% look of catching a King, and then downsizing a bet to about $125 into a $400 pot. Ready to fold if he shoves. This would have saved me about $100. Not great but still something. Anyone agree with that? I guess I could have also re-raised for about $50-$75 less.

Is there any situation where I fold the re-raise to $170 on the flop? That was certainly a very real fear for me. Could only think A-Q is the only possible re-raise on the flop that I could beat. This villain would not re-raise me on a bluff. We both have a lot of respect for each other’s game and we have both played a lot of big interesting hands against each other of the years.

Thoughts?

[Chuck M]

Hi DeeKay

I’ll try something.

PF, i think you know it. I would’ve like a bigger 3bet. Since it’s a squeeze (a raise + a call) I’d raise 4x, so around $50, and it depends on your position. I also understand the home game factor, that may alter a little the “default” strat. But being 800 deep (almost 300bb) I think I like a $50 raise pre, to get more value.

F, i like the dry flop, I like your cbet. (Could’ve been a check too, for deception / balance / dry board / delayed cbet, etc…) But the bet if fine too, lots of Qx in villain’s range, imo.
Then, he raises you to 170. That may look like a set, maybe some Q8 combos if he plays them. As you said, he might also put you on AK. If so, maybe he can be semi-bluffing with a gutter like JT, J9, T9, maybe backdoors like KJ, KT, QJ, QT, Q9…
For that reason, I think I would’ve flat his raise. Keep his bluffs in his range. By 3betting to 400, you get called only by sets, and maybe AQ. By flatting, you lose less when he has a set, and you let him continue his bluffs when he’s bluffing (and it might disguise you hand a little bit more like an AK, if he puts you on that).

Then, I would reevaluate on the turn, you got a chance to draw to an overset, or think about what to do if he bets again.

In anyways, it’s always hard to put villain on a set when we have an overpair, imo

After that, it depends on how your home game plays, maybe if you gii, you can run multiple boards

My humble opinion 😉

Nh, tough spot

[DeeKay]

Thanks Chuck… given such an interesting hand… let me play back a little bit.
PF:
I agree that my 3-bet is a little light, but it was only facing two players, and certainly I want action from one of them. The Villain who calls is a very good player. Definitely a very good Brad Owen/Ed Miller style of player who is very knowledgeable about hand equity vs. showdown value and how to play those hands. But he also has respect for my game and we tend to play very careful with each other. He knows my 3-bet implies strength, and I know he’s calling with something. There is no situation here where he would be playing Q-8.
F:
Its has to be pretty clear to him that I have a big pair given my pre-flop and flop action. I think this is what draws the re-raise rather than a smooth call from him. I agree that perhaps a better play would have been to call his raise to $170. I do get a card to make my King, but given the 5% chance, we assume this isn’t hitting. Therefore I must check the turn. There is $400 in the pot, and I’m guessing he would bet something just under $200. I can suspect he has a set, but I don’t have any confirmation of this. I could fold it just under gut instincts that the Villain likely wouldn’t make this bet without having an overpair beat… but he would also could make this bet with top-top, JJ, AK, maybe even 1010. Am I calling? I would say I had more confidence where I stood when I re-raised post flop… but it did cost me another $200 to feel that confident. I suspect that great players would consider their instincts that something is wrong when a well respected player smooth call pre-flop and the re-raise post flop… that pocket 8’s is the most likely scenario. In which case, great players would fold here. I feel good that when he shoved on me and I folded with over cards, that I didn’t look back and say, “hmmm, a better player would have folded here instead of calling off his stack”. So I think I made good strides, but trying to figure out how I could have saved $200 more.

Regardless… as always, appreciate your line of thought

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by DeeKay.

[Todd]

There is never a situation to fold to the 170 imo

[Author]

Posts