Too Passive or Too Aggressive with Queens

[Bobby]

9 Players, I’m UTG, ~$225 effective at the time.

Preflop: Raise to $15, four callers, including small and big blind.

Flop: 2-5-6 rainbow
Blinds check to me, I bet $50 in a $75 pot. Folds around to small blind who tanks and eventually calls.

Turn: 9 offsuit (no potential flush draw)
Small blind checks to me after thinking for a few seconds. I think for about 30 seconds and bet $75. Small blind contemplates for a while and then calls, thinking about a potential raising based on his mannerisms.

River: 8 (potential one card to the straight)
Small blind snaps by moving me all in (about $85 left). I think for about a minute but feel the way the hand went that I am ahead. I call.

Showdown: Small blind had J-6 suited (top pair on the flop). Queens win at showdown.

Any way I could have played this more effectively? I obviously doubled up but feel like I put unnecessary pressure on myself. Should I have checked the turn?

[Tyler Reading]

You obviously got max value.

I can get behind a check on the turn in position, but there aren’t too many rivers that are good for your action. An A, K, Q would hit your perceived range a lot harder than his so it would be tough to get a crying call from hands like his exact hand. A 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 are all rivers where you don’t really know where you’re at; with a pair and straight draw likely holdings of the SB. Luckily for you he showed up with a hand you could beat on this occasion but if you check and face a shove on the river for what would have been $160 into $175, it’s hard to find a call.

So I think with your stack size the most optimal play is to shove the turn. Yes, you might miss value from a lot of gutshot + pair draws, gutshot + backdoor flush draws, open enders but I think on such a wet board you have to decide to go with your hand because the $75 bet on the turn is a bet where if called you’re getting almost 4:1 on the river when he puts you all in so you can’t fold.

Let me know what you think

[Bobby]

Agree I should have shoved on the turn. That would have put more pressure on him with the top flop pair and he probably would have folded to assure me a smaller pot instead of hoping to avoid another 6 or jack (had I known).

[DeeKay]

I absolutely disagree with a shove on the Turn. He probably folds and you give up all that value. I think the flop bet was a little strong as I would have like to see down bet a little more for value. But you did get the call and this is great. We are setting up for the Jam river.
What are we targeting now. We are targeting smaller pairs, suited connectors that caught and all A-x.
As the board ran out, this could be a little scary that a small to mid pair got there, but given that you put $125 of your $225 into the pot I think those no situation we are folding and making a screaming vomiting call if we have to.
On the turn, you bet $75 into $160 pot. I do like this bet as we are charging those draws and weaker hands. But I still may have down bet just a little bit… we want our opponent to call. But have to consider we want to jam on the river so its just a question of what bet will force him to call on the river. Maybe $75 was the right turn bet given he had $85 left. Something to consider.

It is very odd that the small blind shoved with nothing as you were showing strength the whole way. Maybe it was a bluff on the four card straight. You are beating too many hands to fold. But this would have concerned me a little bit. My fear would have been his small-mid pair caught or his weak ace just filled the straight. Sometimes at 1-2 its so difficult to figure out your opponent, because they are so bad. Did this guy actually think he was good? Did he think you were A-K? If so, why not check call. Leading out makes no sense and could have really screwed you up on a read.

I think you played the hand pretty well. And if he made the straight or turned into a set… well then we are losing the stack. Just the nature of the game. But I think you played it nicely on getting max value, and clearly you did.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by DeeKay.

[Bobby]

Thanks, DeeKay. I think the turn could have played multiple ways but I’m comfortable with how I played it (and you confirming you’d likely do it that way with a slightly lower down bet).

Yes, that’s the thing with 1-3. A lot of bad players that I could get burned. I’m wondering if playing 2-5 would be more to my advantage. I’ve never played it.

[DeeKay]

Depends where you play. Makes the difference on how big the 2-5 game plays. But generally speaking, the weak players tend to over play top pair and weak kickers. Unlike 1-2 players where typically a shove on the river or any big river bet will get me to fold. Or they are calling looking for some pathetic gutter and they hit… making you to never put them on such a possibility. I think what you get at 2-5 is less chaos, therefore hand analysis is typically a little more predictable. But stacks are typically also deep enough that players are creative and bluffing is more prevalent as the nominal value of betting obviously more relevant. Squeeze plays are more relevant and 3 and 4 bets are more common. Far less limping because of that and therefore less players tend to go to the flop.
That being said… obviously you are putting that much more at risk. Game used to be a little tighter when max buy in was $500. Now that it typically ranges from $1k-$1.5k its just a bigger volume swing or impact to the bankroll. Its not bad though from time to time to try 2-5.
Just make sure you are playing with the same comfort level… don’t want to make bad folds because you are fearful of the bigger pots.

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