Tough spot with a solid reg

[Jameson]

A player I consider to be a solid tight player, who I’ve seen in the card rooms and played with a couple times over the years, raises to 8 UTG +3. I just got done winning a big $600 pot, so I splash a bit and call from the SB with A8 diamonds. The flop comes king, 4, 5 with 2 diamonds. I opted to call a 10$ bet, as I’m not too big a fan of check raising on a diamond draw OP because it kind of looks transparent. Turn brings an 8 of hearts, and he continues for $25. I check raise to 65, because now I have an additional 5 outs possibly, and I thought the 8 was a great card for me to rep strength on, as I thought it would look a lot like I hit a straight with 67 and could get even AK to fold on the river to a big bet. Opponent calls fairly quickly. River brings a 6 so all I need is a 7 to have a straight now. However I didn’t think this was that great a card because now I have less combos of 67 and my opponent may have been astute to this. I cut out chips for a while and think strongly about betting, but ultimately end up checking because the 7 hitting threw me off a bit, and leave myself in a situation to bluff catch a worse flush draw perhaps. Opponent bets $100 after about 3 seconds, which is the max. I went back and forth for a long time and thought strongly about calling, getting 2.6:1, and thinking opponents range is isolated to sets, and straights. He has 9 realistic combos of sets and 4 combos of straights counting 67s and one combo of 79diamonds. The only bluffs I could put him on were like qj, q10, j10, j9, 910. However, I imagine a couple of these might check back the turn and take a free card. Ultimately I ended up folding because I thought I showed a lot of strength on the turn, and even though I checked the river, I may have had a set or two pair that was now afraid of the straight a little, but still a good hand that’s not going to fold. So I didn’t think this would have been a good spot for my opponent to bluff. I also tried to discern if he would bet all his set combos for value on the river, and I determined he probably would because he figures I never have the 6 when I check the river. How do you guys like my play? Should I have fired the river instead of backing down, and should I have perhaps called his bet?

• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Jameson.

[Kevin Rex]

Hey Jameson,

Interesting hand. Here are some thoughts:

1) If you’re never raising a flush draw OOP then what is your raising range on that board? Is it only sets and 2 pairs? In a way, that can become transparent if your opponent is paying attention. If you ALSO aren’t check raising sets and 2 pairs there is a real problem. This board is simply better for your range, so you need to have some type of aggression strategy with a mix of bluff and value.

I’m NOT saying to check/raise here with the nut flush draw. In fact, I think calling is correct because it’s possible you actually have the best hand with ace high. I don’t expect many better hands than A8 of diamonds to fold here. An overpair is going to call because the flush draw is out there and if he was bluffing with JT then you just folded out a worse hand. I’d prefer to use a hand like T9 of diamonds, etc. These have no showdown value. Now when we fold out his random KJ bluffs, we fold a better hand. SO – good play on the flop IMO.

2) My issue with this hand is the turn play. I definitely understand your reasoning for raising here, but I would not be check raising this river. You just turned top pair, top kicker, and, although you have toooons of equity against your opponents entire range and DID pick up 5 outs if he has an overpair, this hand still has enough showdown value that we don’t need to turn it into a bluff just yet. I would call and play some rivers, planning to check fold on some very bad cards like Ts-Ks (hit your opponents bluffing hands as you noted), check call some good rivers like board pairing and undercards, and check raise excellent rivers like diamonds, 8s, and aces.

I also don’t think you’re going to have much fold equity here against an overpair. Yes, you could have 67s for a straight, which you claim to be repping, but that is a very narrow range of only 4 combos. Do you think your opponent is going to give you credit for having 67s AND all of the sets and 2 pairs when you didn’t check/raise the flop? You can certainly have 88 here for turned top set, but surely some of those other strong value combos would check/raise the flop for value. A thinking player will call with a fair amount of overpairs here.

3) I agree that the river card isn’t a great card for you to barrel as it makes 67s less likely, but I think you can credibly rep more than just 67s here for value. It’s pretty unlikely your opponent has a 7, honestly would be reasonable to value bet some sets in this spot too. In that respect, not a terrible card for your range. A8s isn’t the worst hand to use honestly. It’s hard to be bluffing without having previously had a 7 so you have to get creative. The 8 blocks top set. I’m not sure how to put this hand into a bluff or shutdown range because I wouldn’t check/raise the turn. Still, your opponent can have some overpairs, of which I think many can fold if you put $100 in on the river. Not sure what % of overpairs would fold if you laid him 2.6:1. Maybe that’s a limiting factor too?

If you aren’t going to barrel off on the river I think you definitely have to check fold. You have diamonds in your hand which means you block a lot of his bluffs. As you said, you can still have some sets and 2 pair hands that don’t block his bluffs with which you can call his bet here.

Overall: I think you worked yourself into a weird spot by check raising the turn with a hand that has showdown value. Usually if you check raise the turn with a bluff and give up on the river you can easily check fold instead of debating whether to bluff and then RE-debating whether to call.

[Jameson]

Thanks for the analysis. Some really good points. In retrospect I prefer check calling the turn instead of my raise, for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. At the time I guess I just kind of felt like I was beat, and I could represent the straight very well when the 8 comes. Better to do it with a hand with no showdown value like you mentioned though. I guess I also do prefer following through on my bet, as I think I’ve told a great story that I have at least a straight if I bet on the river and he finds a lot of folds, however played as is he can bet all his value including sets on the river instead of folding them perhaps. Also, I could have sworn I shared the link to the hand with SharemyPair but I guess I forgot. http://www.sharemypair.com/smpweb/smpviewdetails/feed_id/30081

I guess I used 6 and 7 a little bit interchangeably and I apologize for that. They’re essentially the same thing in my end. But the video with sharemypair should have it right!

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