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in a $160 MTT at my local casino. 11k up top. was at the same table for a long time and had a good feel and chipped up nicely by the time my table broke. I moved with 70k on 3k bb which was about 2x avg stack. the very first hand at my new table i get AQ off in early position. I obviously have no feel for the table. most players have similar stacks. 50k-90k at first glance. i guess the only other note would be that i’ve played this tourney a few times and it seems to be filled with 1/2 super tight old dudes and 1/2 bad (way too loose) players. When I get one cold call, I assume there are a lot of small pairs and bad aces in his range, as well as broadway cards suited or not. but again, first hand at the table. When I check the flop, I felt like I was announcing my hand. In which case I suppose I should have just folded to his bet? Is my float ok based on two overs and the gutter? when it was over I felt like I has lost way too much of my stack based on that situation and run out. What could I have done better? sizing, etc? Thanks to Brand for this site and to all who contribute!
Chris.
http://mysmp.me/h_hBcHey Chris. This is definitely a frustrating spot that we’ve all been in a million times. Playing ace high out of position is very tricky and many many times more challenging than playing in position. It’s actually one of the primary reasons we make less money out of position: if we check w/ ace high we may have to face 3 bets instead of only 2 in position.
When the board comes 253cc it’s pretty likely that you have the best hand given the range you assigned to villain. He’s going to have a lot of flush draws, broadway cards, etc that you’re ahead of. The tricky thing obviously is that you’re out of position. We also have A LOT of ace high hands that we’re probably going to check here. Let’s look at how to approach our range:
First of all, as you noted, you felt like when you check it announces your hand. For most players this is true. When you have an overpair you bet and when you have ace high w/o the flush draw you check. This allows your opponents to attack you pretty aggressively with hands like T9 or QT hoping to get you to fold ace high. How do you solve this? 1. You need to mix some very strong hands into your checking range. If you sometimes check with AA on 523 with the intention of never folding unless it’s the WORST runout ever, then you make it hard for your opponents to feel comfortable bluffing you. (I know ppl hate checking w/ AA because they want to get value, but I promise in some situations it will increase your win rate in the long run. I also use AA as an example because there are less bad turn cards than with like JJ). 2. You need to mix some very strong bluffs into your checking range. This could be a hand like AK-AJ of clubs. Normally people bet these very aggressively, create a huge pot with a hand that has some showdown value, then bluff their stack off when the flush draw misses on the river. This strategy also means that when the flop goes check/check and the turn comes a club, you can STILL HAVE THE NUTS. Very important. It also means you can check raise with both AA on the flop and huge draws if you so choose (normally when the preflop raiser checks they rarely have a hand strong enough to check/raise unless it’s top set or a flopped straight). 3. Bet out with your hands like 99-KK for value and non ace high flush draws like QJ or T9 of clubs as these have no showdown value.
These are adjustments that we make when we’re OOP so that our opponent cannot abuse us in position when we check to him. Here is the real benefit: Now we can easily check/fold a hand like AQ w/o a club on the flop and not worry about being bluffed because we know that we could have SO MANY better hands instead. We can check/call with two overs and the nut flush draw, pockets aces, pocket 77 or 88, etc. These hands we’d be calling at least 2 streets with. We probably also want to call the flop here when we have two overs and a backdoor flush draw like AQ w/ the ace of clubs. These hands we’d be planning to call the turn with when we make a pair or pickup the flush draw. If the turn comes the 8h or something like in this example, we can fold easily.
These rules nicely protect your calling range (by mixing in strong value hands and draws) and also provide some clear rules that make playing ace high OOP easier.
In general, don’t feel like you need to check/call with AQ when you don’t have a backdoor flush draw. There just aren’t enough good turn cards that give you more equity. You’ve missed this flop! Time to give up the hand 🙂
Hope this was helpful!
Cheers,
KevinIn a cash game I think your line is fine. In an MTT with no info on your opponents, I’d say stack preservation would be the priority in this spot, so check-folding the flop is probably best. If you were going to try to continue on the flop, a better line would be to bet-fold rather than check-call imo. At least when you lead you have a chance to take it down right there. Also you get to choose how much more you’re going to risk instead of waiting to see how much your opponent bets.
Please tell me what you would have done in my position:
Playing in a WSOP tournament… 5000 chips to start… in first 4 levels I get AA 4 times and KK once every time in late position with a bet in front of me … With each opening hand I went all in and was never called. I had between 4000 and 6000 chips every time. Wondering what you all would do? My thinking now is to re-raise and hope for 1 caller. What would you do? Thanks Brad for this website and your excellent videos!Chris, with just 2 over cards and a gut-shot out of position, this seems like a fine hand to check fold the flop on a medium stack. I agree with Kevin, have some check calling hands in your checking range, but in this situation, I don’t think AQo is in there. I think being OOP with a small stack to pot ratio makes this just a bad situation.
John: I think you should ask your questions in a new post, otherwise the conversations will get confused. With AA & KK you want to get to the river in a heads-up pot. If your shove is too big to be called then it doesn’t matter what you hold. Maybe ask what range of hands would you 3bet with and pick a raise size that will apply to all of them, that way you don’t give away the strength of your hand and hopefully gets some action.
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