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Yes is the simple answer to your question. These type of events happen in tourneys and cash games frequently (more so maybe in bounties?). You have to remember, you win this with such frequency that you cannot focus on the times you don’t; otherwise, you will sabotage yourself with negative emotion or end up playing J4off trying to replicate the evil that has happened to you and then you lose to it and lose with it. Hopefully you will have better luck or better avoidance of bad luck next time.
You won a nice pot, not sure the shove maximized the potential pot. Agree with all that is written above.
Agree with your analysis. I’m playing it the exact same way. C-betting and folding to that check raise into two players with very few exceptions.
I think your 4 bet sizing is dictated by factors outside your control as pointed out by others. Their play and stack size dictated yours. It’s good to take the smaller uncontested pot. All things considered, I would have either 4 bet shoved or called seeing a flop and playing from there knowing I’ll lose occasionally against two villains or even one but I will get stacks on occasion too.
Other factors that would influence my play that you didn’t mention was which time was this KK? First, second, third, fourth along with how I played others would guide my efforts to mix it up.
TBH I’m not liking the shove. 2x flop shove that hits both your ranges hard. My preference there would be to bet smallish or even check, rely on my awareness of his tendencies and evaluate. I’d be looking for any reason to fold. To me this is no different than playing QQ against an Ace on board against a happy family – probably drawing thin to dead. Sometimes, you have to let it go and lose the minimum. It sounds like you wanted to gamble, if that’s the case then say so and that’s ok – people play that way and especially when trying to build a stack in a restricted game like you described. Another way to look at it – if the board was double suited or even only a single suit – what would have you done? That might let you know of your capacity to get away from your hand or tell you another way to play it.
Not necessarily a Vegas expert but since no one else has responded, I will throw my two cents in for you. From what you’ve described, any poker room would probably be a good match for you. If you’re not having fun or the game is not what you want, switch tables and then casinos if necessary. Aria, Bellagio and Wynn are all popular and their environment is better IMO but competition can be tougher there (which is good and bad). At the $1-2/1-3 level be prepared for some wide open play. You will have locals, tourists, pros and those who have never sat at a table before, try to use your skills and not focus on the outcomes.
The daily tournament at Aria is a favorite of mine. Seems to have decent players for the buy in amount.
Can’t comment on the Omaha games.
I’ll be in Vegas about that same time frame (Jan 4 through 7) to celebrate my wife’s birthday. Maybe I will see you there.
Similar experience myself (in terms of game size and style) recently. I would have normally done what Tosho and Saul advised. I decided to change it up and did closer to what John advised. Played it like a no fold’em home game, not raising unless I had it and being mindful any two cards are in play at any time. No bluffing, no hero calling and shoving when I had the nuts – because you get paid off in a no fold’em. This isn’t poker to me and I would have chosen an option that is not discussed that is leaving and playing a better game later. Sometimes you just want to sit and play some cards. I took an approach that was results oriented to determine my quitting time (either up or down cash amount). A cautionary note is that I don’t recommend this for certain players because you have to understand this isn’t poker with thinking players and bad habits can be created and reinforced resulting in bad play down the road.
No secret tips here – gonna have to grind it back up. Recognize you beat variance the first time and this time, you might not be so lucky. I agree with Steven here, save for a couple of buy ins – I wouldn’t want to go and not play my game, that makes for bad habits. The best advice I would give is go and hustle for some poker money and when you have your buy-ins, get back at it playing your game.
I think with the info provided, I polarized the decision. Obviously there are other options (call, min raise being two). I think to discuss further, more info is needed. Does the raiser have a significantly bigger stack. Have they routinely been raising as the bubble approached. Have they been playing hands that you can’t put them on at the flop. They have a read on you. You have a read on them. Are they attacking the small blind for some reason. Have you seen the “pro” be capable of a big lay down. What type of hands have they been raising from MP. Their thought of your table image. Prior history. The other is in the value of the prize. Is your entire bankroll in this tournament (I know that seems out of line but I’ve seen it a bunch). Do you need to book some kind of win for morale’s sake.
So, that being said, I could see choosing option three (and other options) but that decision is complex and I would want more info before supporting or criticizing that route.
Obviously depends on your goal. You plan on playing to win tournament or you ok with min cash? Can’t choose both here. If you want to win the tournament, IMO you push and know that unless you are up against AA or KK, you are likely flipping or way ahead. I doubt you get a call from any two cards but only strong pairs or another AK. I am also assuming raiser has you covered. If you desire the min cash and then effort to try to move up, then fold, fold, fold til bubble bursts. This assumes there are several stacks smaller than your 17-18 bigs stack. No right or wrong choice, just personal decision. Respect either way.
Personally I ignore the charts of shove, fold. I instead choose to be situationally aware. I also do everything I can to ever feel panic. Panic feelings lead to poor decisions. If there’s a weak spot (or more) behind me that is afraid to call, I will shove no matter my holdings. If I get a traditionally shovable hand, I will shove. If a player has nitty image and they are in the pot, I won’t risk my chips pre-flop (without premium holdings). Might not be optimal poker but in my mind works for me in tourneys and it’s something I’m comfortable with. That’s the most important part, you need to be comfortable with your strategy and tactics. Good luck.
PS, you can easily google the push fold, shove fold hands – if you want to go that way.
Not sure you played all that badly. Him turning over 9s and flush being onboard along with lacking awareness of stack size during all probably contribute to your feeling of poor play.
His line is confusing especially with the call to the raise by a nit rec on button. Playing 9s out of position against an initial raiser in their first hand is questionable (adding to your confusion) and I wouldn’t expect that type of hand, nor would I expect AA, 8s or 4s there. So to me that eliminates the trips possibility and an overpair to your kings. His raise to me said Ax of diamonds, possibly A4 or A8 but are those really in his 3 bet range from EP? Clearly you having the Kd eliminates AKd. I might have shoved there, since I doubt I’m folding either with top pair and no expectations of being beat. I also probably call when he checks turn, bets river – $75 to win around 600. I think we play it fairly close to the same way – except as noted maybe I shove to his raise on the flop. Since you felt unsure of where he was at, that adds to the feeling of playing it poorly but sometimes you have to look at the analysis and not always go with the feeling of the moment. Hope it helps. Cheers.
I agree with the analysis here others have put forward. Another possibility is as follows: you offered a detailed description of someone while describing yourself as new to the 2/5 game. What you know about him, I would assume he knows about you – not less. New to a higher stake game, tighter player – he may have just pushed you off your hand with aggression no matter his holdings. Good luck at 2/5 – another note, depending on place, a lot of time it’s much like 1/2, 1/3 just more cash – meaning I avoid folding overpairs to the flop unless I clearly think the villain has caught the flush or straight, even then I can get stubborn. Been burned by players who overplay their hands too many times at low levels.
It’s about your thoughts (of expectations) and self-talk. Just because you’re 98% to win doesn’t mean the one outer won’t come and when it does, it’s the expectation that leads to the emotional response. First, I think you have to be prepared for it, knowing that it will come some of the time – basic statistics here. Secondly, when it does come, telling yourself it was a possibility (and they got really lucky), I need to keep my cool, because as long as the villain is in the game I have an edge on him/her and we play long enough, I will win all their money. The self-talk can vary from that but that’s the essence I find that helps me. Lastly, realize no one really cares and making a fool of yourself serves no good purpose for anyone except your opponent. Reading Mike Caro’s poker stuff from back in the day is good info on this aspect. Jared Tendler’s stuff already mentioned is good as is the Tao of Poker. Hope it helps.