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Thanks for the input. I agree, both calling and raising are viable. I’ve played against this opponent many times, and I think he has a Jack all day.
As he was in the BB, I think any J9+ and all JX suited. Of course he could have a set, but I’m not sure he would have led out.In either case, I thought raising was better in order to keep the lead, get more money in with good equity and potentially get a better hand to fold, even though I knew it would probably take a turn bet in addition to the flop raise.
So I raised to $45. I question that size, think $55-$60 would be better. He thought for a while and called.
[$111] Turn was Kc. He checked. Stack sizes are awkward here, but I bet $85 to continue the story. My plan was to give up if I get called unless I hit my draw. Villian called.
[$281] River was As. He checked, I checked with showdown value (couldn’t raise as I dont see a hand that was worse that would call).
He showed KhJc for a turned two pair.
I’d like feedback about the line I took, and alternate lines that might be better.
Not too aggressive at all, in fact I would have raised larger. The raise was $80 into a $220 pot four handed. If you had the board absolutely crushed, maybe that’s fine, but with two clubs and all 9-10 and 6-7 combos drawing very live, I think a raise is definitely in order.
Interesting spot, and very uncomfortable. I think your thought process is right on. The reasonable combo’s that beat you are AQ (eight combinations) the 44, 33 combinations (four total combos). Would he flat QQ on the button? I realize it’s only 1 combination, but would this also be possible?
You make a reasonable argument about why he wouldn’t have played them that way (the full house combo’s on the turn, and the AQ on the river). In particular the AQ combo’s would most likely check the river as your range is uncapped and could have AA/KK in it as well.
You indicate you have played with him a lot in the past, and I am presuming he is capable of 3 barreling a hand he realizes he has to turn into a bluff when you called the flop? You have to call off 1600 to win 3790? At this point I think you have to call.
The key decision was on the turn. You can presume at this point he is setting up a river bet for all of it, so it was either lay it down or call/call or shove over his bet. I probably would have folded and looked for better spots, but as played, in this spot calling the turn with your particular holding probably means you have to call off river bricks as well.
I’d have probably folded pre-flop, but not the worst call in the world.
Flop play makes sense as does the turn.
On the river, there’s no way I’m betting into a four line straight on board with the dummy end. What hands can possibly call you other than someone who will chop with you or someone who is ahead of you? I just don’t see value in betting there, and certainly not a snap call. I’d have taken the check/call line in this situation.
I also think your opponents turn call was questionable, calling 100 into a 350 pot but some people just can’t get away from top pair.
My two cents
Hand 1: I would have considered raising pre-flop to isolate the all-in. Since the initial raise came from UTG, this might be a little problematic as his range should be strong, but shoving 10’s out of position with 48 bb’s and all the dead money (presuming folds from the villians) is certainly worth considering. As played I like leading with the flopped set given an Ace on board. The rest of the hand just played itself.
Hand 2: I would have folded to a bet followed by a three bet from UTG and UTG+1. Your range is destroyed by theirs
Hand 3: I would have called the raise from late position. Just too good a price, especially with the SB in the pot. In my opinion, I check call all three streets. I’m seldom raising all in on any hand (outside of nuts) when I’m only using one card from my dealt cards to make my hand. I think you played the river too strong, it’s only getting called by better imo.
I agree with both Dave and Matt, but I’ll take it a step further, I think you should have raised the flop as well. Top two, while nice, is vulnerable especially against two opponents. You’ll most likely get called by strong draws and over pairs, but you’ll be getting more money into the pot while you are in all likelihood ahead.
I actually like the way you played the entire hand, except the river. I don’t see any point of raising on the flop as everybody’s range is completely open since it was a bomb pot. Not hard to find made straights and flushes with 9 players to the flop.
Turn is fine, and I like opening a side pot is a good thought. I like your sizing, as blowing a inferior hand out of the pot, only to lose the main to the all in player doesn’t make sense.
At the river, with a double paired board, the opponent can really only call with a K (for a chop), or 99 (for quads). Maybe you could get a crying call from a 9x hand, but is that a likely holding consider the way your opponent played the turn (check/call)? I think by calling the river bet, you decrease variance, without sacrificing very much value at all.
Agreed, tough spot. He definitely could have flopped two pair, and knows he is vulnerable to getting counterfeited by an over pair. 78 suited, 57 suited would make sense. But if the board is rainbow, that’s only 4 total combinations.
You didn’t mention if the 2 on the turn matched one of the suits on the flop putting a back door flush draw in play. I also don’t think he is jamming a flopped set, or a fortunate flopped straight as he wants to get value, but sometimes players (particularly in lower stakes) get worried if the board starts to get suited or starts to straighten out and just start over betting to force others out.
I can definitely see 99 to QQ playing this way. Especially QQ as its so high up in his range, and 99 as even if he gets called he has additional outs to the straight.
Now looking at it from his point of view, he saw you open to $21 pre-flop, which seems big to me in a 1/2 or 1/3 game. If this is standard in this game, then no problem, but if not, would he consider this a sizing tell, indicating a big pair in your hand? If so, then I think his river and turn betting indicates a hand that is ahead of you, as he probably thinks you will call.
All things considered, I think I lay this one down too.
Pretty much a cooler. Don’t know if you can do much about it. I’ve folded bottom set on the turn in a similar situation, but it was very much of a player dependent lay down. In this case, against an agro, I’m happily shoving my chips in.
I’ve played the $1/$3 game in Harrahs New Orleans and like you said, it plays bigger than a typical $1/$3 game. Better luck next time.
I agree with everything Dave said, especially point #3.
As far as flop bet sizing. It isn’t a wet board, but isn’t dry either. There are a lot of combinations that the opponent has nut draws too, JQ, J9, 89, 79, 78, that are definitely within his range. Let alone all the paired hands that he will continue with. That’s why I think a standard 2/3 type bet is called for. You have top pair, but don’t have the board dominated like you might with a set or top two.
In this particular case, I don’t think the extra $20 bet on the flop would have changed anything, but in general I think $80 would be a better bet size in this situation.
I would have raised pre-flop in order to better define the other ranges AND maybe more importantly, start building a side pot. I don’t like taking JJ to the flop multi-handed. I’d be interested in getting other opinions on this as well.
Tighten up your range, open larger, and 3-bet larger in position. This should narrow the field heading into the flop, and better define their ranges. Play with your open bet size to find a level where you can accomplish this. This can vary by room, opponents, time of day, and a number of other factors.
Most of these players want to see a cheap flop, so don’t make it so easy for them.
Also, take extra special note of those players that limp very strong hands. For instance in the room I play, I know of a couple players that will limp with AK, AQ, QQ on down. You will need to be mindful of that if you are against them post-flop. On the other hand, those same players will only open KK, AA, they are easy to play against if I see them opening pre-flop.
Thanks for the feedback.
I did find a fold here. I think at a higher level against a more thinking player, I may have called and re-evaluated on the river. But at this level, even if he is bluffing, I think I can pick a better spot. I knew I would face a large river bet, so I decided to just give up at this point with a minimal amount invested.
He later mentioned that he had A-4. He never showed, so can’t confirm this. But this would make sense for many $1/$2 players, to limp/call with this hand.
