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A pot-sized donk bet is, at worst, going to be KdXx. The could be some 2-pair combos in here (he called a raise with 95s, he’s probably calling with 64s). Not quite a true OMC.
You’re getting 2:1 on a call, so need to be good 33% of the time. And you’ve only got 4 outs to improve (or 2 vs 66). And if you call flop, you have to call the turn jam on any non-diamond.
That said, this is probably a fold against most villains, especially at 1-2. Lately, I’ve been defaulting to “have I seen a person capable of making a play similar to this?” Been using this line of thinking in scenarios like:
1. Is this limp-reraise anything but KK+?
2. Are they betting 3- and 4-flush boards with non-flush hands?
3. Are they betting one-liners without the straight?People just have to make me think they’re capable of making these plays before I call. Probably a good fold most of the time here.
Give it a shot. You don’t have to buy-in for the max if you’re not comfortable doing so. But, it does give you a chance to see how the game plays, get used to the size of the game and the pace, and gives you a chance to get a feel for the players at the game.
As someone who recently made the move from 1/2 to 2/3 to 3/5 over the past few years, here are some of my thoughts:
“Any two card” players are pretty rare. Occasionally you get the maniac fish/whale, but they are obvious to spot.
Skill level definitely goes up. Depending on where you play, you will find pro and semi-pro players at this level. Generally, they are pretty easy to spot: backpacks, everyone knows their name, generally covers the entire table. They will spot you as new to the game, and they might target you if you are that out of your league there. A few targeted me my first few games, but I held my own and now they generally respect my play. Might not happen (especially if there are other fish at the table), but be prepared. Don’t be afraid to moves seat and get the best players to your right.
The game is definitely more aggressive. There still is a decent amount of limping, but a lot more 3! and 4! pots. You have to be aware of position, be aware of what raises from different positions mean, and be aware of who is 3! a lot and who is not when you raise.
That said, there are still plenty of fish at this level. Still some OMC. Still lots of people with lots of money and little skills. Plenty of money to be made here.
I have noticed that I do better at larger games, and I think that’s for two reasons:
1. I tighten up my pre-flop range, which is like half of the battle for good play. I would tend to get bored and splashy during long 1/2 sessions, and my play would drop. Doesn’t happen at higher levels with more money on the line.
2. I pay attention more. It’s easy to ignore action at the limpfest that is often 1/2. I pay attention more at higher games because it’s more interesting and I learn more from watching the good players play.If you make the move, good luck!
First, we have to know WHY we bet. So why do we bet? Two primary reasons – for value and to bluff. We can also bet for protection (ex. JJ in a 3bet pot, flop comes all unders. We are betting for value AND to charge our opponent from hitting an over card. The hand is likely good, but needs some protection).
We can also bet to build a pot in the event that we hit. This is also a bluff, since we are likely no good. We can win the pot right away or we build a bigger pot for when we do hit.
The KJ hand – This falls under the last reason for why we bet. Yes, it’s a bluff, but we have a draw to the nuts, so if we hit we want to win a bigger pot. Hence why we should be betting. I’m betting flop and turn (unless we get raised), and I might bet the river.
Why bet 3 streets? Well, our opponent can’t simply call-call-call with a lot of hands. Sets will likely raise at some point with the straight draw out there. I imagine two pair raises as well.
Put yourself in villains shoes – what is the worst hand you call for 3 streets here against a pre-flop raiser. For me, KQ is the WORST hand I call for 3 streets (without extremely large sizing). And T (or worse) shouldn’t call (strictly bluff catching with that hand). QJ would be close, but I feel you’re going to be outkicked a lot here, so it’s probably a turn/river fold for me. KQ, AQ, and any two pair combo I’m never folding.
In this case, he did have AQ, but that’s not the point. By betting, we set our own price (instead of that over pot-sized bet he made on the flop) and get to put pressure on him, rather than letting him take the lead and set the price. Plus, there is a chance he raises and we know we can fold.
55 hand – Terrible spot to trap. Yes, we most likely have the best hand, but we are extremely vulnerable. Bottom set on a board with flush and straight draw. Not the spot to trap. We need to be fast playing and getting money into the pot before the board gets worse for our hand.
Trapping is a play we should rarely use. Only times we should ever really trap are when we a monster hand and need our opponent to catch up – top boat, top set on really dry board (AA on A72 rainbow), etc. It’s somewhat hard to trap even with nut flushes and straights, since there are so many cards that can kill our action (4 to a flush or straight tend to scare people off). We do better by playing fast. Check raise is fine, but don’t get fancier than that.
AA hand – that’s a tough spot. You’re never wrong raising AA pre, but you also don’t want to fold everyone out. What you don’t want is to play the hand 4 or 5 ways and lose a lot of your equity. The problem is 4-bets are so few in a 1/2 game they are almost always AA. But I don’t think that means we shouldn’t 4-bet, since we should be trying to target super strong 3-bet hands like AKs or KK.
You don’t seem like you have a plan in your hands.
KJss hand – Raise pre is fine. Flop gives you open-ender, and you check to induce? That makes no sense. Checking to induce is to get someone to bet a worse hand. Only possible worse hand he can bet here is J9. He bets over-pot, which should get your attention – he’s doing that with at least a pair. I don’t mind the call, but I would rather lead out and set your own price. Probably bet $12-15 on flop, rather than paying that price to draw.
55 hand – Just jam flop. You’re short, it’s only a little over a pot-sized bet, and this is a wet board. A lot of cards you don’t want to see.
1010 hand – nothing wrong here.
It’s important to have a plan for future streets. What do we want to do when we hit? What do we want to do when we miss? What do we do when we miss and no draws come in. What do we want to do when we miss and a different draw comes in? And just as important, what do the villains have and what do our actions look like to them?
You also mention wanting to play a TAG style. TAG is great, but in these examples you aren’t aggressive anywhere but pre-flop.
Just some things to focus on. Ignore the cooler’s and the bad runouts. Focus on whether or not you make good decisions, not the final win/loss.
Should have been a fold on the flop if you know V1 has a set.
There is a place to do this, but V2 has to have a much large stack. Something like V1 has 200, V2 has 500 plus, and you cover. There at least you stand a chance to profit. You want to be able to make a good profit to do this, since sometimes you won’t get paid, and sometimes he will draw out on you.
Here, you’re just hoping V2 stacks off and you’re break even/lose money.
I think you can include it on like a yearly total, but not a session total, if that makes sense. It is a benefit of playing poker since the casinos are giving away this money, I just wouldn’t want it to affect my hourly rate or my winning session rate.
But, you have to decide why you are tracking your winnings.
I’m generally not a slow-player, and I find that people tend to pay off on early streets more than on later streets. But that’s not to say you should never slow play.
This board, it’s kind of close. You have to think of what he can call you with. The only real hand that beats you is 77. A7 will call, and Q7 if he has it. Maybe AK or AJ assuming he doesn’t 3-bet AK pre. So that leave flush draws that may call. But, since you have the Ace of clubs, he can’t have pair + flush draw or the nut flush draw. KJcc, KJcc, or JTcc is a combo draw, so those may lead the flop and call your raise. So those are what he may call your raise with. But he also has a lot of weak Aces he’s going to lead and fold to your raise.
That’s why I think this is close and might just call once, planning to raise the turn. You have the Ace of clubs, so if a club comes to have a redraw to the nuts.
As played? Never folding this unless HJ is the king of OMC. He limped after a limp, this should never be KK or AA. If it is, he’s just a terrible player.
How I would have played it? Definitely need to raise here. Last thing you want is to play QQ multiway, and UTG’s raise is so small you might get some more callers, and with QQ you want as few overcards in the field as possible. When you get more callers that increases the chance both and Ace and a King beat you. I would make it at $175-200. You might entice a hand like TT or 99 to call if you don’t jam. But all-in isn’t a bad idea either.
1. Fine.
2. I would bet at least the turn, and maybe the river, since you have the king of hearts. Good card to bluff with, and you have two overs and a flush draw.
3-6. All fine.
7. Why are you planning to check-raise here and not bet with second pair? Doesn’t make much sense. You want to check-raise your strong hands, your big draws, and bluffs. Middle pair is just a bet or a call and evaluate. As played, I think a fold is okay since it’s hard to think you’re ahead here against two players.
8. Fine.
9. Why no flop bet? Top pair, great kicker. Not sure why you’re checking here. And the Ace is a bad turn card if V has an Ace, since you’re dead to a 10. Just bet the flop and take it down. You’re trying to get a little too tricky by checking top pair.
10. I don’t see much wrong with a size. It does seem big because it is 50bb pre-flop, which is pretty rare. You really don’t see that too often without a straddle. $100 pre-flop at a 1-2 is a big bet relative to the size of the game. I think you need to make the raise at least $80, so $100 isn’t that bad. Only issue is you’re probably only getting called by AK+ or QQ+, but I like the raise to take it down there.
11-12. Fine.
13. Fine. You win money from this villain by making strong hands, not calling down light.
14. Again, why check raise? You’re strong, but not that strong. Just call the donk and let him fire. And you said yourself this guy rarely raises pre, and is a station, so expect him to have strong hands in his range as well. You’re probably getting stacked here anyways, but the check-raise too much on the flop. Just bet-bet-bet here (or I guess call-call-call here).
So to answer your question about whether or not you can raise there – yes, you absolutely can. You haven’t acted, so no matter what happens in front of you you can raise. It doesn’t matter what the raise is, V2 isn’t raising you, he’s raising V1. You haven’t acted, so you can raise.
Now, the 50% pot thing is only for AZ and other spread limit states. Had you been the initial bettor, you could not have raised. It would have had to have been $150. In no limit states, the bet would most likely have to be 100%, or $200.
That said, this should always be a raise here. A max raise in AZ, to $430. this is a super-wet board that will likely hit the opponents very hard. Charge them while you are so strong. V1 has a ton of hands he can continue with (2 pair, pair+ straight and/or flush draw, straight and/or flush draws, etc.). Pile money in right now. I’m max betting flop and turn.
On the river, as played, I might just check it back. It seems like you should be well ahead given his check-back, but if he raises you’re really in a tough spot. I guess it would be villain dependent as to whether or not I would call. No one should be checking a jack here, but there also aren’t many players turning 2 pair into a bluff.
And I disagree, I think you have to worry about both opponents. Main pot is around $550, but the side pot is $850, $300 to call. Even winning just the side pot is an overall win.
You don’t need a bankroll to do that. Just play a session – take a shot. Even if you only plan to play 2-4 hours, just getting that feeling of the table and the stakes is huge.
My first session at 3/5 I had a few pros that were targeting me because they saw I was new blood. But I find I play better at 3/5 since I tighten up my pre-flop range and tend to focus a lot more.
I wouldn’t really consider LATB a great source for poker training. The put together their line-ups for entertainment and action games, but there’s not a whole lot of sound decision making going on. It’s really just more gambling.
My personal favorite site is Crush Live Poker, run by Bart Hanson (who often crushes the LATB line-ups). He really focuses on the 2/5 to 5/5 level of poker in his training.
As far as bankroll, just know that 15-20 buy-ins can go quick. I’ve seen pros lose 3 or more buy-ins in an afternoon on bad luck alone.
If you want to try 2/5, just try it. You can always go up and down as you feel more comfortable. Play a short session at the higher level, feel comfortable with the players and the bet sizes. You need to be consistently winning at 2/5 before trying to take playing full-time.
This is kind of close. Normally I would say this is a mandatory 4-bet to isolate, but considering how short the BB is you end up playing for such a small pot.
I’m not saying that raising here is bad, it’s always fine to do this pre-flop with AA, but in an instance like this I might call and try to entice the other players in rather than play for a 25BB pot.
