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I agree that calling the V1 shove, means I’m likely committed to calling the V2 shove… otherwise, why call the V1 shove. As you may have guessed, I ended up calling.
Given how loose V1 is, I put him on an overpair, JJ+ at least… after the flop action, he immediately knew it was the wrong play to shove. Even with his overpair, he was drawing dead.
Yes, I have may live outs with the gutter and the nut-flush draw. If V2 also has none of my outs, (i.e. a flopped set), I’d have 4 sixes for the straight and 8 diamonds for the flush, for 12 outs.
12/43 for roughly ~2.5:1.
After calling $525, and having ~$1600 behind, I need to call $1600 to win ~$2700, or roughly 1.7:1. Perhaps not the right odds to call…
As V1 said after the hand… can’t win a big pot if you don’t play a big pot!
V1 ended up mucking, V2 had the flopped straight (6c7c) with no diamonds. I ended up having 11 outs for 2.9:1.
Thanks Rayan. I did have him covered; I think we were $800-900 effective. Not willing to stack off with AKo. If he has $400-500 pre, then I’d possibly shove and let the chips fall where they may.
For me this is a situation of winning a medium sized pot now, or potentially losing a large one on the river.
I might 3bet the flop… hindsight is 20-20 I know. He obviously has a hand and fast playing it might be a better option.
What would he potentially call a turn bet with? KKd, JJd, QQ, 99, 66, and smaller flushes. You need to charge those draws (as you did) I think and your sizing does that. If you let him have a cheap look at the river, he will take it… Ten outs if he has a set. $350 into $525 is 2.5:1, so not quite enough for him to call with 10 outs.
Just my $0.02
Pre-flop 3-bet range is pretty wide on the button, so I would definitely be 3-betting with AA. As a comparison, if you had AA in the SB, your range is pretty tight, let’s say QQ+… nonetheless, if you don’t 3-bet AA on the button, what WOULD you 3-bet with? Benefits of a 3-bet is that you narrow the openers range. If he 4-bets you then you know he’s QQ+, maybe even KK+ as he’ll be doing this out of position. Added benefit is that the button 3-bet can look like a squeeze, especially if you have more than one caller before the button.
Post-flop, I would be check-raising this open for 100% as you have seriously under-represented your hand strength. You want to start building that pot ASAP.
Tough one on the turn shove, as you have no idea where he is and as you surely felt, “I’m in a tough spot here”.
If you had 3-bet to $80 pre-flop you MAY get one caller, and be heads up to a flop of 8d5c2d ($180). If you c-bet $120 you likely take it down right there.
Having said all of this, there are spots where flatting AA is fine. when you flat AA pre-flop, you absolutely need to check-raise the flop. Now if he 3-bets you on 8d5c2d (flopped set), then I think you can find a fold perhaps.
Lastly, think about what you will do with different board textures post-flop. Nobodies perfect so don’t beat yourself up. I myself am still tilting from a recent hand where I dumped my stack without thinking it through.
Just my $0.02…
Have fun!
I recommend learning a solid pre-flop strategy first. You can find lots of free online content that will get you 90% the way there. I’ve heard some say that 80% of poker is good pre-flop decision making. I tend to agree with this.
Best to start playing a tight strategy and learn patience early. Get your money in when you have the best of it and value bet like crazy… at least wen playing $1/2. Don’t try and bluff when learning… I should take my own advice on this!
I would suggest that rather than step up to a $1/2 game at a casino with your entire bankroll… that you try to organize some home games with your buddies… and implement some of the things you are learning through study. Home games play quite loose, but it will give you a feel for the live game.
Couple of good books that I recommend are:
Mental Game of Poker – Jared Tendler
The Theory of Poker – David Sklansky
I’d also recommend getting a free month of poker training at Crush Live Poker (activation code: YTA100). Lots of other good free content on YouTube also.
Good luck!
Six ways to the flop… you have to think that there’s a set out there… and possible two pair Q9.
I think you have to find a fold here… Eager to see how it played out.
What I’ve found in lower stakes, is that most aren’t taking into account bet to pot ratio. Most people see the $350 as “holy S%$&, that’s a huge bet”, rather than getting 3 to 1 on a call.
Seeing as you check-raised the turn showing strength… a down bet may have had some merit, say $150-175. I think if you were playing $2/5, it was the right bet size.
Nice hand nonetheless!
The 8 should be a brick when you take into account the BUT range. Yeah I know he hit it, with a ridiculous 84o, but he only has two combos of K8s that would be reasonable, plus 9 combos of sets (4, 3, 8).
I liked your preflop sizing. With it going 3 ways to the flop, I might have made it a little higher on the flop bet, say to $45-50… tough not be results oriented here though. I might have made the call on the turn too FYI.
He’s the guy you want to play pots with, as he’s called off $14 more with 84o, and then calling a half pot bet, with bottom pair.
good luck!
Take a break, grab a beer and a fish taco LOL. And be patient like you are, can’t win em all… and better to be patient and whittle down a single buy-in than to be impatient and fritter away 2-3 buy-ins because you are trying to force it.
My $0.02!
I agree with Dave, I would have bet that turn and tried to get value from draws and over-pairs. It is always important to get value and build the pot, especially when three-handed. I too agree that unless you make a pot-sized bet that the JJ isn’t folding. Tough to stomach, but it’s important to focus on your decisions and not be too results oriented. It’s a cooler for sure… GL at the tables!
I think he had 99 or TT. I don’t see him raising a set in position in a four way pot, especially with a rainbow board.
His jam on the turn indicates he is scared of over-cards on the river. I would have called off.
It was a nice bet by the button, as the flop hits his range far better than it does yours. I still don’t think he jams sets like that though.
Tough spot…
Hey Josh, if you ever find your way to Kelowna, BC, give me a shout. We have a 5 table poker room at the local casino, and can regularly get a 2/5 NLH game going on top of the standard 1/2 NLH and 2/2 PLO.
All the best!
M.I like how you played it. Agree with the guys above.
Only thing I’ll add, is that stack sizes play being so small… it makes it really tough to get a bluff through as people will likely always be priced in. I say this in the event you have a key blocker and not the nut flush… and decide to barrel the river.
nice pot!