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Kills are used in structured betting games since you can’t normally raise a large amount as you can in no-limit or pot limit games. It gives a chance for extra action on a single given hand.
In a split-pot game, a kill is usually awarded for scooping a pot of over 10x big bet; in a single pot game, a kill is usually awarded after a “leg-up” which means you kill after a player wins two hands in a row.
In structured betting, the number of chips matter. A $3-6 game is the same as a $9-18 game is the same as a $75-150 game — the only difference is you bet with $1, $3, or $25 chips respectively.
In a full kill, the betting doubles for that hand. So, in a $3-6 game, with a Kill on, the betting is $6-12.
In a half-kill the betting is 1.5 for that hand. So, in a $4-8 game, with a half-kill on, the betting is $6-12.
Once a player is awarded the kill, the put in a third blind bet of the small kill bet. Its house rule whether this is a hard-rock straddle or if it is just a blind bet and acts in turn. In most games I play, it is a hard rock, or in other words, action starts to the left of the kill, instead of the usual UTG location.
Structured betting in hold’em is simple — the small blind is 1/2 the small bet and the big blind is the small bet. All betting pre-flop and on the flop is based on the small bet and all betting on the turn and the river is based on the big bet. So, in a $15-30 game, the small blind is 5 or 10 (depending on whether this is a 1-3 or 2-3) and the big blind is $15. Raises must go in increments of $15 (three $5 chips). On the flop the first bet is 3 $5 chips and raises in increments of the same. The turn and river is double or 6 $5 chips to bet or raise increment.
Hope that helps.
I think its a great idea, Chuck, to review and discuss your sessions as it will help you grow as a player. Keep up the good work!
Matt – The 8/16 LHE at Wild Horse is a pretty solid game. I don’t know about playing regular, but a few times per year I’m in PHX and I play with the same 5 or so regs plus 1-3 randoms. They don’t remember me, but I remember them and they were all pretty easy to figure out in most cases.
The Spread Limit + cap you have to get used to and certainly caps potential, but mostly it plays just like short-stack NL.
Especially since the K completes the rainbow, there really is not a realistic draw. 97 | 75 suited? Not sure that would call your three bet pre. The one better hand that may have folded there is ducks (22), but most folks will fold that pre to a 3 bet and would probably re-pop your flop bet.
So, yeah, I think in this specific spot, disguising your hand strength a bit with a smaller bet (1/3-1/2 pot) may have goaded him into a call with whatever he felt was worth calling on the flop.
Thanks for your thoughts on the hand. I really should have check-raised at first draw. In this game I had seen this player fold after standing pat when the oop lead into him after the last draw. I assume he stood on something marginal like a 9 or 10 and folds to an assumed made hand when oop lead out. So I was tempted to lead out into him hoping for a fold, but ultimately, I chickened out and check-folded.
Charles – don’t worry too much about the $ value of the chips you are using to play the game — what’s more important is the strategy to accumulate mounds of chips, whatever the $ value is. 9/18 is exactly the same game as 75/150 … just played with $3 chips instead of $25.
I may have over-stated the 7-dugi as a ‘good’ badugi half. Reasonably marginal is probably more accurate. Had the 4s or 8s come in, I’m pretty sure it would have been a scoop. Any 4 any 8 would’ve almost certainly been good for the 2-7 half. As a three-card, the 7 might have been good if he had something unfortunate like 2-3-4 all of spades and was drawing for the 2-7 half, standing on a smooth 9 or 10 after 2nd. This game was passive when certain players folded and much more active when they decided to come in. In this hand that player had already folded so it was more passive than average.
Hand 1: A guy last night on Stones Live turned his quads into a missed flush draw bluff-look-a-like shoving all in on the river (just short of pot sized). He got tank called by two pair. You can catch the re-run on YT, it was probably in the last half hour or so I think.
Depends on the competition though, I have tried moves likes a delayed (like I’m thinking about whether I should just call or raise) min-raise like Dave suggested. Some players will call off b/c math and some will sniff out the value bet of a strong hand and fold their decent bluff catchers.
Hand 2: Played perfect, got unlucky. You could go the nit route and refuse to put in more than x% of your stack unless you have a strong, made, 5-card hand — but are you here to be a nit or have fun going after value when you finally hit that set. Maybe check-call mode after front door flush draw arrives, but its not like you’re going to fold, right?
Hand 3: Your instincts were right when you didn’t check raise the turn and you lost the min on KK vs. AA, dry board.
Deer in the headlights is a classic weakness tell. Furtive glances cannot as easily be interpreted. But by your description, you sound like you looked nervous and ill at ease. So he either doesn’t understand what you were projecting, or could not correlate it with behavior earlier in the hand. Or he had a hand so weak it couldn’t even beat your bluff. Maybe he was just frustrated he didn’t make the move before you did (on the turn perhaps) with an equally bluffish hand. Maybe he was debating how often his missed AT was good in this spot and decided to save $$ by folding.
Interested in seeing you break down the A5 hand vs Charles & Dale. That was a tough one to let go of.
I think the first lesson is — you should not always play exactly one way. 100% cbet is not a good idea, for reasons Stephen explained. You need to balance check-call ranges OOP and have an idea of what to check-call with (should be a mix of made hands and bluffs) and which to cbet with and then double-barrel. A lot of Villains have picked up on floating the flop with any pair or draw and then dumping the turn when their is no more runner-runner help and hope all but dries up. You should also mix in some delayed c-bet as part of the strategy. Also, depending on board texture, AQo could be the legit best hand. Villain might have KJ, KQ, AT, etc.
Personally I would have folded your hand pre-flop, even from the button, unless it was PLO 8 or better.
Flopped straights are about the equivalent of flopped middle pair in hold ’em. Omaha is a major drawing game and you will be called by all manner of hands that include two spades, especially if at least one is paint. Plus middle set as you found. Top set is unlikely as you would have probably been re-potted pre with all but the most ragged AAxx hands.
As played, however, it is just tough luck that the board paired on both run-outs. Statistically, you were behind the whole way though. Against just that hand, you were about 36% vs 63% for Villain. After the flop, even though you hold a straight, your only live re-draw is the case deuce. Of course as you are analyzing at game speed you will also consider board pairing outs to make a boat which unfortunately just aren’t good in this specific case where are you dominated by middle set. But you do pick up equity on the flop getting now 45%. The money goes in at that point so even though you jump to a 63% favorite on both turns, only leaving board-pairing outs (other than the case 2) to beat you.
Play around with some simulators and check out how weak the equity is with a flopped straight versus a set and flopped straight versus a flush draw. You may be surprised how vulnerable the hand is and how unlikely it is to be a favorite. Now that doesn’t mean don’t bet – but it does mean err toward bet-call or check-call versus bet-reraise or check-raise.
Thanks, Steve! I like what it offers for hold ’em, so I’m looking forward to future improvements! Great job!
Mostly this comes with experience. It also matters a lot more when you have a variety of options. Like in Las Vegas where you can easily take a 10 minute walk and be in a different card room with different tables going. If you are in an area with more limited selection, like only one card room in the area, and only 3 tables going — you don’t have a lot of choices. But sometimes it is about deciding that tonight is not a good night to play. Easier decision for an amateur who isn’t making a living – who won’t miss paying bills if they choose not to play. If you are a grinding pro, this is a whole different thing, you have to trudge through these kinda bad tables and squeeze blood from the rocks.
Neeme had some good things to say recently:
Neeme – Spotting a Good GameLimon also discusses this a little when he discusses with his guest to avoid the table of hikers.
Another excellent signal is listening to the Floor Chatter — if you hear “Chips, Table 7” several times in the span of a single dealer down, you want to move to that table. Gird your loins and be aggressive with your premiums. Don’t bother bluffing (ain’t no one folding) and don’t slow play. That table has someone that will pay you off almost always.
GL
After Seat 5 folds and its HU, raising about 1.5x pot should give him poor enough odds to consider not calling a flush draw. However, some players will still make the math mistake and call anyway (I am guilty of over-calling with nekkid NFD far too much). Variance is a bitch when that draw comes in but you are still a favorite with a made 5-card hand.
So even though you could lay a worse price for the draw, most game theory would suggest you want to lay a good price to call for value because you’ll still win more often than you lose with a made straight in a similar situation because the draw still misses the majority of the time.
