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I don’t understand the 3 bet sizing the most as I’m 3 betting here at a higher frequency than flatting against these player types. I think $200 is the minimum but I like slightly higher bet 220-240 against these exact player types. Take advantage of the maniac while denying equity from the solid player. The “pro” can only call a big bet here if he’s at the top of his range. Glad it worked out but I agree with Deekay that as played this is a losing strategy.
Honestly I agree with everything you did up until the river. Your opponent obviously doesn’t have an A based on how he’s played to this point. But the problem with the all in is you put your opponent in a situation where he can only really call you when he has you beat.
You’ll win the hand and get no more value everytime he doesn’t have an A or a boat… rarely get more value when he has a Q.
I say going for thin value is the best bet. You’re pot committing yourself anyways so why not make an extra $20-$30-$40 profit on the hands he has more than nothing but doesn’t beat you.
Also, don’t always assume that just because a player plays loose pre-flop and is sticky on the flop it means that he is going to call pot sized bets with meager holdings on the river.
Other than that I like your pre and post flop bet sizing. I like the turn check because if your opponent called with a weak Ace in flop he will probably check on the turn hoping you continue with the aggression.
Thanks for the hand!
This is a great hand…. I felt the tension just reading through it. 2 callers on the flop to your $350 flop 3 bet is a total wtf moment.
I’d be interested in knowing how quickly MP called. Typically when people call extremely quick they’re usually on a draw. I called a players hand to the exact 2 cards and suit partially based on this info the other night.
I would like your turn check better if not for the fact that someone kind of has to be on a flush draw. The problem is you pretty much only have a pot sized bet and any turn bet commits you completely to the pot but I think you might have to go with it. You want to fully charge the draws and you’re losing to so few hands as is. Heads up I can consider a check but not 3 handed.
As played, I think I’m just calling the $250. I don’t have a good enough feel for the situation to have an idea if the player is trying to get a crying call or if he thinks the 2 of you will read that as a “please call me bet” and bet-fold. Either way, I’m calling for $250 with any 7 here as it just gives too good of odds.
Thanks for the response DeeKay. I forgot to mention the straddler was probably the player I respected the most in the game as he was making some really good decisions for a 2/3 game. That being said he didn’t get much out of line that I saw.
I think I agree with the 3 bet pre-flop here… I didn’t do it because of how wary I was of the straddler but now that I think about it a 3 bet would almost certainly isolate me with the weaker player except for when the straddler wakes up with exceptionally strong hands.
The other reason I didn’t is because it was the first time the weak player actually raised pre-flop which had me very nervous. Also, looking back, this is the only hand I saw this player take past the flop in the hour we played together.
My question here is, as played pre-flop, would you really consider a raise on the flop when 3 handed? Isn’t that over repping my hand against 2 players? Especially one player that I consider competent?
My thought on turn was that I could rep the flush or straight since my range is fairly wide on the button and I was fairly certain this player had more hands in his range that missed on this board than hit. What do you think about a raise shove on the turn against this player type? Or am I giving this player too much credit in thinking he’s doing anything more than playing the 2 cards he was dealt? Therefore, I need to apply maximum pressure with top pair knowing I’m going to be good more often than not.
And thanks for reading… I really appreciate the feedback considering this is the only place I get to talk poker strategy these days. Not that I’ve been playing a lot anyways. Cheers!
Thanks again. I’ll check out that book… I think I remember Brad talking about it. I need all the help I can get if I’m going to get some Bradley dollars next weekend at the Garden’s casino MUG. It’ll be my first one ever.
Thank you this is great feedback… I usually don’t like to lead against 3 opponents on flop but 2 of the players were calling every pre-flop raise and then folding flop so I figured their money was dead.
On turn I think I like the x-call more than x-raise as I’m not made yet. Or I need to make my bet bigger… maybe 3/4 pot instead of half. It gives me fold equity and disguises my hand when I hit.
On the river I know I need to bet… I don’t see how top pair gets away from a bet of $120. I’m terrible at getting value in these spots… it’s a massive leak in my game.
I agree with chuck that the pre-flop raise is too small. I’m actually raising to $18-$20 based on having 2 limpers in the pot. Essentially 2.5x-3x the money in the pot. I don’t mind it if you go 4x depending on the table. This way when you get there limp/shove for $38 it’s not much more for me. Although, even as played, I’m calling pre-flop everytime. It’s $28 into a pot of almost $100. Also, if a player has only $38 in front of them and they are open limping then shoving I’m going to assume they’re a pretty terrible player. Usually, I fear that move from someone who is winning and has a solid stack.
This now gives you the ability to raise the flop with your flush draw and pick up some dead money or it allows you a free river card as your opponent will likely check turn to a solid flop raise in position.
Just my thoughts on another way to play the hand.
Obviously the hand played well because you got the AA to fold but I don’t think the line is optimal as we want the AA in the hand when we’re so far ahead.
I would prefer to check to the raiser when smashing a flop like this but it is definitely a wet board so we don’t necessarily want to give 2 opponents an opportunity to draw for free. I think heads up this is a for sure check- raise situation but 3 handed I think you’re forced to bet. I prefer a slightly larger bet size than $65 here… I think I would lead out for slightly less than half pot say around $115. I think AA here will still raise fairly often to $275 or more leaving you with clear choices should the other opponent fold or shove.
If he shoves you can just call and then rip it in on any non spade turn card. If he folds then you can try for another raise or call and lead out on all safe turn cards.
It seems based on your description you were in the SB… is that correct? Assuming so, I think my issue here is pre-flop not post. Although information on the EP would be helpful (is he tight or overly aggressive, etc.)
Pre-flop with 66s out of position with an EP limp, MP raise and late position call I think I’m raising here as a squeeze play. I want to try to take the pot down now or force out hands like small connectors. By calling you’re essentially inviting the limper and BB into the hand for almost free. A pot sized 3 bet to 30-35 should isolate MP and when I smash this flop I might get one or 2 streets of value if my opponent thinks I’m c betting with A high. Or I take it down with a c bet on the flip if I miss but the board comes in a way that would perceive to be beneficial for my range. Or, again, you take it down right away and thank your opponents for the free $30.
As played, I probably have the same outcome. You smash the flop and there are so many hands your opponent could be jamming with that you have beat. I’m probably stacking off while thinking what could I have done differently? As played the only way you get away from it is if you have some live read or have a very good feel for how the villain plays. Remember he is leading near pot into 3 people on the flop when he limp-called pre…. chances are when a player does this they’re pretty strong.
Thanks for the response! I considered a limp re-raise pre-flop but the other 2 players in the hand were very sticky pre- flop players. If they were in for a dollar they were likely in for their whole stack.
I believe at the Aria in Vegas you’re only allowed to straddle from UTG.
I see what you are saying on the flop. Normally I would check to the pre-flop aggressor and let them bet but I was worried it would check through. Also, I thought betting into 3 other players for $80 seemed too strong out of position. But I shouldn’t be results oriented and realize that in the long run this could be a leak.
On the turn I was not afraid of a shove because I figured my small flop bet would have gotten a raise from AJ or better. I figured likely ranges were pair plus draw and small to medium pocket pairs. It’s possible someone floated with a Ax hand. Here though you were wrong in the recap as straddler folds and HJ fish calls.
Overall I think my problem actually isn’t my river sizing but my flop sizing was way too small and I can maybe stick with a 1/3-1/2 bet size on the turn and roughly 1/2 on the river.
Thanks for the response Chuck. Yeah $8 is a small opening but there were 2-3 players who were pretty aggressive 3 betting a lot of players. I eventually increased my opens to $10-$11 after I earned some respect and started getting 3 bet less. I like the $8 open in these situations sometimes because players often don’t know how to read it. That being said, my last 2 sessions have all been $10 opens.
I get what you’re saying regarding the tens but I would definitely open K10s-J10s in this game even from under the gun. There were a couple of passive calling stations and I got many bluffs through. I think I only got picked off once all night.
And you’re totally right… If he bets $60-$65 on the river he wins that hand every time.
Thanks HJK that helps… I feel like I read the board too well and assume my opponent always has whatever hand would beat me. I definitely need to spend more time assessing the situation and try to get my thinking away from just the hands that beat me. I haven’t played a cash session in a few months but I think I’m gonna go soon with 3 buy-ins and do my best not to play scared. Win or lose I don’t care… I just want to make the best decisions I can.
Hey Deekay… I don’t disagree with you and I think we’re saying almost the same thing. The only reason I like the 3 bet is because he’s out of position and I think he’s being too cautious in assuming the opponent’s opening range is so narrow. Also, I’m not that afraid of a 4 bet when holding AK considering at worst I’m flipping against any holding with the obvious exception of AA and KK. A 3 bet builds a bigger pot and allows us to win pre-flop enough times that it is profitable. I’m not upset when my opponent open/folds or open/calls and I get more information if my opponent open/4 bets. I don’t hate the flat he made pre-flop I just think 3 betting is more profitable.
Now, I agree with you that when he flats and hits the flop he needs to check. It gives our opponent an opportunity to bet and if he checks back I’m probably betting under half pot on the turn. By leading the flop he loses value from all weaker hands except maybe AJ.
The key here is that it was the end of the re-buy period. I’m guessing this was a daily tourney with a smallish buy-in of $130 or less? You have to take into consideration the fact that the rebuy period is over. People play completely different when the rebuy period is live. You’ll see players shove a bunch of weird hands… their just trying to build a big stack to play with for after the rebuy period. They don’t care if they lose because they’ll just buy-in again. Once the the rebuy period ends players tighten up and you’ll find those guys that were blasting before turn into tight aggressive players.
Regardless, I prefer a call with JJ and see a flop against an UTG open. You’re in position which gives you an informational advantage.
A player like this I’m probably limp raising pre-flop when out of position with medium premium hands (like KQs) and opening 4 betting big premium hands. But easier said when you have the information after the fact.
First hand: I don’t usually open KQs under the gun but that’s a personal choice. That being said, I like the open then flat pre-flop. I prefer to lead on the flop here or check raise just because even though this was your first hand against him I’m sure you already had a feeling of what type of player he is. You have top pair with a backdoor flush and you have blockers to other premium hands. On the turn, if you check call the flop and a blank comes here I think you need to lead out with a strong bet. This tells your opponent that you have a hand and are not afraid. By check calling flop and checking turn you give the impression that you have a hand that you would be willing to fold… I’d only do this against a player like this when I have the nuts or close to it. River fold… I think you knew this was a bad decision even as you were throwing your cards in the muck… there are a lot of hands that can bet for value that you beat and a lot of missed draws that can bluff here based on your passive line.
Hand 2: I actually like your play. You raised strong pre and made a pot sized bet on the flop knowing exactly who you were up against. When the turn hit you have the presence of mind to realize your opponent could have 56 in their range and make the smart play of check/ calling. You can’t fold with over pair and drawing to the second nuts… the river…. fuck…. he hits the one card in the deck that lets him win any more money from you. Any other spade and you take down the pot and any non-spade probably gives you some reason to fold. You played it well and lost the minimum… I think most people (myself included) get stacked here.
Don’t play scared… I hope to see a post from you soon telling us you played him again and stacked him!
