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Hello Jacob,
Welcome to the world of Poker, hope you have a suitcase of patience and a duffel bag of concentration.
There are a lot of things to remember when getting started in poker that sound obvious but you need to internalize.
Do not play outside your comfort level. If losing $100-$200 hurts you don’t play much above 0.02/0.05 for a while. Losses can add up fast even when playing only $1-$2 stacks. Stick to 0.01/0.02 until you win regularly.
Learn the fundamentals first before branching out. Stick with pre-flop raise charts and understand pot-odds and relative hand strength post flop.
Accept that you will lose a lot when you start playing and maybe for a long time after. I have yet to prove to be a winning player, my best year I averaged about a -1BB to -2BB per hour rate. It’s why I don’t play at all now and if I decide to start again I will likely start at the limit tables at my local casinos.
Understand what variance means. AA wins about 80% of the time, meaning that 1/5 times you lose with AA. and that doesn’t mean that if you play AA 5 times you lose 1, you could lose 2, 0 or even all 5 times, but over a large sample size (meaning 1000+ hands of AA) you win about 80% of the time.
And finally, find a group of people to play or talk with. My biggest problem is I haven’t found a community to be around. I can’t stand playing with people I know and like because I feel bad when I win, its not a good mind frame to have.
Pre-flop can go either way with a flat or squeeze. It gives good pot odds with a set mining hand however it gets a lot more likely that you get coolered. With multi-way action coolers are a lot more likely.
Once the turn comes I would also likely lose my stack. Against players I perceive as really weak I can fold a bit easier. In limp call pots I have learned to listen when weak players raise. Against strong players I’m much more likely to lose my stack. I can see thinking players making plays with hands like A8s, A3s, some other Axs, 78ss maybe some 7x and 9x hands.
So the quality of play really depends on the strength of the player. Most of the time with lower stake players they jam in this situation to try to prevent people from catching up. I’ve seen it a lot when people have a middle flush or nut straights and they pray the board doesn’t pair up.
Against stronger players, it’s a much more reasonable call. Although I would guess most of those players would try to get a pot commiting bet and then shove over top.
Yes, never ever feel bad about getting sucked out on. It happens and I’m surprised you didn’t get it all in preflop. Preflop you are about 80% to win (which means about 1 in 5 times you will lose). After the flop yeah it sucks but you can’t really feel bad about it.
A quick reference. I played yesterday and had KTss in a raised pot, had about 60BB effective. Flop comes TcJsQs. I bet, player goes all in for about 40BB into a pot about that size and I call knowing and expecting to be behind. Why? Because the only hand I have outs to any hand possible, there is some chance he is on just the nut flush draw and even against a set or 2 pair I have outs. As it turns out he has JT and I brick on both cards. THe math on that works out to 18 outs (9 spades, 3 kings, 3 9s and 3 Aces). Believe it or not mathematically I will win about 64% of the time. Villain needs to have both draws not be any of the 18 cards I need out of 45 left. Which leads to a Villain win%=(1-18/45)*(1-18/44). This game is not about winning any one hand, it’s about making decisions which over time will make you money.
Hand breakdown time!
Pre-flop: THe $50 raise seems small, it gives both the limper and the raiser a really good price to call. I’d prefer to see a sizing of $70 especially against this player type.
Flop: I actually don’t like the down bet here. This flop is somewhat connected and you give a really good price to continue his draws. Something along the lines of 75% pot makes sense.
Turn: Check is good. Pot control though if you have the Kh I would like to see another bet but not mandatory.
River: The lead doesn’t make much sense unless he had JT with a heart. You beat all 1 pair hands and any missed straights.
Thanks for the insight John. I label him an OMC because of a personal definition playing at Wild-Horse. I see a huge number of older players limp calling with a huge range of suited cards (23s, 95s, K4s etc) all the way up to QQ and KK especially in the 2-100 game. Maybe a better definition should be ultra passive.
Yeah I really wanted to just fold and move on but 2 pair seemed too good. It just seemed like then the worst hand I call with is 66 or maybe even AA (I am limping 44 and maybe 66)or KdXx and that range seems narrow, about 10% of my raising range (AA, KdJx+ and 98dd, T9d+)
Ok, so lets breakdown the hand from the beginning.
Pre-Flop: I don’t like the limp. I don’t like limping in general, I like it less from early position and even less with vulnerable hands. This hits all 3 of those things. I think folding 78s from UTG+1 is the best play long term and especially when playing with relatively short stacks (under 150BB). When 200+BB it may be worth a raise.
Flop: Leading into the pre-flop raiser is strange. I feel like this hits his range or the UTG limper’s range best (I don’t know what your UTG+1 limp range even looks like) You are trying to represent a K but I think you are most likely to have the worst King here. Again, the best play is either check fold or check raise. You have no showdown value and Cutoff can have KK and QQ.
Turn: you make the flush, great! Keep betting and 1/2 pot seems good. The min raise is really strange, especially on the turn. The only thing that can do that for value is the Ace high flush or maybe nut straight or sets trying to charge hands with single diamonds in them.
River: Complete blank. Considering you only need to win about 30% of the time I think a call is in order. You beat all sets, straights and 2 pair hands. only a small number of flushes beat you and there are a lot more set and 2 pair combinations that you beat. Even if you lose you have 16BB left, enough to try and get back in things.
Welcome to live poker Nick! I’m no expert (I started playing less than 2 years ago) but I’ll see what there is here.
Pre-Flop: So $4 button straddle, UTG+2 calls you check. Nothing wrong on your end, 95s is a really weak hand and I think it’s a fine check. I don’t think you want to raise and get called, your hand is just really weak and you would need to smash the flop (2 pair, trips, flush or straight) to feel comfortable.
Flop, $8 pot: Great raise, you have smashed the flop, and you can represent a lot of bluffs here with heart draws, gutshot straights. Good sizing given how small the pot is.
Turn $38 pot: Bet is good, I would even say go bigger, like $25 a lot of his hands can still call, Kx, pair plus and you can still represent a lot of bluffs here. His raise should scare you now though bluffing here doesn’t make any sense withy him calling your flop raise then check-raising as a bluff? That said it is a tiny raise, it’s only $22. Even if we limit his hands to those that beat yours, you have about 21% equity. COnsidering you only need to win 23% to be profitable it’s an easy call.
River $96 pot: Total blank, he checks for some reason and you check. I think a check is fine, you beat all 1 pair hands but I don’t think you get called by anything that you are ahead of. He turns over K8o that he limped for some reason…
Keep playing against this guy and from now on if he is the only limper raise him. If he’s limping K8o then he is limping like 40-50% of hands, and it may even be the lowest half of those hands which makes a raise even better.
Overall well played and you lost just about the minimum.
I think the 3 bet size pre-flop is a bit small. With a 3-bet to $25 the blinds have a halfway decent price to call expecting UTG to call (most people don’t fold many hands they raise UTG). And the initial raiser and caller have very good prices to call, each only needing 42% equity directly if they are the only caller. Then if UTG calls the first caller only needs 26% equity to have a profitable call. I would say a 3-bet of $35 is better.
On the flop why not just go all in? Charge the flush draws immediately and put him in a tough spot if he has something like Ax of clubs and then you can still represent a bluff. By calling you are letting him set the price. He probably still isn’t folding hands like JJ or QQ and I’d be surprised to see him fold TT. Neither of you should have sets and BB actually is most likely to connect with the board.
Austin, there are a number of questions you need to answer here. Also, understanding what people mean by bankroll and what you mean is important. Most people refer to a bankroll as the total money they have set aside for playing poker. They can add to it or subtract from it as needed based on other life activities. What a bankroll can refer to is the amount of money they have for poker and will never be using it for anything other than poker. I’ll answer your specific questions and give you some food for thought.
Q: “What is a typical buy in for a 1/3 game?”
A: This varies person to person. Conventional wisdom is to by in for 100 BB, so for a 1/3 game that is $300. This gives a person opportunity to make some bluffs, see flops and C-bet a couple of times and still have a decent number of chips left. With only $100 you will be in shove or fold situations pretty frequently potentially losing your $100 in less than an hour.Q: “how much should i keep in my bankroll?”
A: Entirely dependant on you and your goals. I put away $1700 to start my bankroll, playing mostly 1/2. For a 1/2 bankroll that is a bit on the small side. To not really have to worry about going broke I would prefer something closer to $3.5k to $4000.I’m not sure how experienced you are with live poker so the next few questions you have have answered but just in case you haven’t considered them. What are your goals? How much are you comfortable losing in one night, in one week, one month and one year? What is the worst outcome you can imagine if you lose all of your poker money? How much study do you do when not at the table?
And for my final opinion for folks entering poker, start with Limit poker if you can. If you casino offers 2/4 or 3/6 limit than $100 give you a lot of playability. Use that to learn with a much lower potential downside.
Realistically no, and thinking about folding is like when people flop the nuts, get it in and lose to a one or two outer on the turn and start questioning if they should have gotten it in (I had someone sit down and question that to me). Maybe if you are like 400+ BB deep and this happens then maybe you can find a fold but I’m guessing you were between 100 and 150 BB deep.
You have exactly 4 combinations of hands that beat you, one combination of 33 and three combinations of KK. If you are ever folding here then you are only ever calling with KK or 33 and I don’t think you ever have 33. You got 2 outed, it happens.
I’m still continuing the grind and I’ve been having a lot of time to reflect on my mental states throughout the sessions. I only have about 40 hours played over 10 sessions so its not much. The losing sessions are the most interesting. I have found I am more frustrated by hands where I believe I misplayed, usually ones where I made a stupid call or didn’t make a call that upon reflection I feel I should make. I more get confused when people limp call with a really wide range. I had one gentleman today complain about AK never winning but he just kept limp calling AK from any position and kept losing because someone else made a pair and he didn’t.
Bank roll is now at $1840. I had my first back to back winning sessions to jump up from $1430 which is another anecdote. It is really hard to string together winning sessions, even with a relatively small walk out cap. It is so frequently just a couple of turn or river plays that make or break a session.
Best of luck to everyone continuing the grind.
Short answer, yes this is a misplay.
I also disagree with how you are classifying this villian. I would put this one in the Nit type. The specific rang you gave is like the top 5% of hands. Thus with a hand like AK while you are behind most of his range, if you hit it is unlikely that you get paid on later streets.
If the is that tight then if an A or K comes then he wont call with QQ, JJ, TT and you chop against AK, you only get value from AQ.
Hand breakdown and then my thoughts.
Pre-flop: I think either call or raise is fine, I would may trend more towards a raise depending on what I think of the BB. If I think BB is capable of raising light I would prefer a 3-bet. We have a good hand but I don’t think playing out of position without the initiative is a good idea.
FLop: I prefer a check call. Regardless of what we think of UTG+1 limp call range, BB could certainly have AK, AQ and sets. I don’t think you want to drive out weaker Aces since they have at most 4 outs and only 3 clean outs. Even with the Raise I don’t like the sizing. I would prefer $350. I don’t think you want to be getting stacks in here and the range for stacks you give is really wide, $1k to $2k is a massive range.
I would prefer a call on the flop and then a fold on most non-heart turns. I don’t think you get value from anything worse and you have some equity against hands that have you dominated like AK and AQ.
Good result, wrong play unless you think he can fold AK and AQ to that move and you know he has those hands. check raise on a dry board doesn’t rep much and if you do it too often then you get in trouble. I think a decent check raise range is, 44, 66, 46s, A4, A6s as value. As bluffs use A5s, A2s, A3s, and 75s where one of the suits on board matches one in your hand. This gives rather narrow range with decent balance and equity.
